The Road to 5.0

[Theodric]

I am hoping he is the next in line to die. There is little about him I like. I'd rather see us guided by Gaius and Nero, than Cid.

Unfortunately that is unlikely. It's fairly easy to guess which characters will have plot immunity based on which quests they are tied to. Cid is tied to various side quests - optional ones, at that - so the current model puts his survival chances as very high. A lasting injury, however, is another story...so perhaps that is a route that can be embraced.

[Enkidoh]

I'm usually utterly terrible at predicting and interpreting these prophecies of things to come in the game so I'm not even going to try this time around, other than agreeing it does seem disturbingly ominous. (Although I hope ultimately it does involve Zodiark and the Ascians final demise....). But as they say, we'll find out soon enough.

[MuseTraveller]

A friend noted how funny it would sound if that's the next expansion title, so we'll have ARR, HW, SB ... and another SB...!
SB2: Magitek Boogaloo

[Lauront]

I'm usually utterly terrible at predicting and interpreting these prophecies of things to come in the game so I'm not even going to try this time around, other than agreeing it does seem disturbingly ominous. (Although I hope ultimately it does involve Zodiark and the Ascians final demise....). But as they say, we'll find out soon enough.

Just bear in mind an imbalance of Light/Darkness will result in the world being destroyed, or at least being rendered unrecognisable. This happened to the world now known as the Void, which Igeyorhm plunged into Darkness, and also Arbert's homeworld, where the Light became so powerful it is searing the world. Neither are optimal. So, ending Zodiark without somehow ending Hydaelyn will have the same result... and if Hydaelyn ends, at the least the Blessing of Light will be forfeit. Possibly the Echo as well. Though maybe the Resonance will help solve that. We'll probably need it for whatever villains come up in 6.0 and maybe 7.0.

Yoshi-P may be toying with us, after all, but I think they've thrown plenty of hints now at the theme of the upcoming expansion and its likely setting.

[Zephanoa]

I mean, the same could be said of Nero. Neither of them are accepted anymore by the Empire and Cid is quite rightly seen as a traitor. Plus, even if he were not, his father's actions did not sit well with the current reigning Emperor. I don't think he has any standing to speak of within the Empire. If we do side with some faction in the Empire, perhaps they will accept his counsel.

I think there is going to be a lot of coming around to be done by several NPCs. I don't know that Nero would be on the front line of it. Nero is more well known for his pride, I think he may help but I don't see him playing a bigger role than what Biggs and Wedge are. I think Cid is going to have to come to terms with liberating his home land from rule and will be a point guy for being companion to the next expansion as he should have a better lay of the land than anyone. Either way it will be interesting if Cid `n crew end up having to meet up with Shadowhunter.


Speaking of Shadowhunter (I am not saying he is Gaius, but he is Gaius) his homeland isn't the same homeland he descended from. The XIVth was essentially rogue from the empire with the succession. I don't see him being an ally but a neutral party looking for one thing. Cold. Hard. Revenge. For the loss of home, conquest, and his way of life.


I would like to point out (by speculation) that violet is also an association of the color of the Void and Voidsent. We must not forget the deeds of the empire past. How allagan technology that was meant to be used to open a portal to the Void brought upon us the Calamity of Dalamud. In "The Rising" past we sought to look forward in expansions and I don't think that they would stray from tradition.

What is Unukalhai doing these days with his violet eyes and born of the world of void? Sent by Elidibus to preserve the balance no less. Better yet what did the empire "borrow" from the technologies and studies they found in Azys La? They sent Regula's body back at some point. I would assume from the Garlean point of view they wouldn't leave empty handed even if Regula in the end didn't want the Eikon control technology to end up in the empire....

We... still... do not know whose face Varis saw in Elidibus. We know that Varis called the gang of Ascian's "Shadowless charlatans." So it seems that Shadow is a prevailing theme among everything Garlean. Does the Empire truly dangle in the marionette of the Ascian threat or is assistance actually mutually brokered? Varis has no real love of family but a returning general back from going toe to toe with the WoL and lived to tell the tale is a beneficial influence to at least the Garlean army.



*queues the "Answers" theme song* After all we are celebrating right?


Just stuff that ran around in my head. :3

[Anonymoose]

They haven't really touched on it since 2.x, but the Ascians (It might've been Elidibus, specifically) mentioned how they intend for us serve as a key of some sort, but we weren't yet ready for that purpose and needed to be stronger.

Good memory! Twas 2.3, I think, if you don't count a tiny throwback to it in the Warriors of Darkness arc. Elidibus has from the very beginning had a different mission than the black-robed overlords, and we're clearly meant to think he might have an entirely different worldview, down to questioning whether we should trust him or that he stands for the greater good. (I, for one, do not believe this.)

Every now and again he drops hints to "the Warrior of Light's true nature" and the "coming of a new god". I don't see any reason to have faith that Elidibus has any interest at heart but Zodiark's; I just think he's good at reframing actions that would otherwise confuse us as somehow necessary or even benevolent by withholding crucial information and context.

with multiple shards still not having been assimilated back into the source, the Ascians would need a way to speed things up either by causing a calamity so bad that the energy of multiple shards is needed to recover from it or they have a plan to break Zodiark's seal without need of a complete rejoining...somehow.

I question how many worlds really need to be rejoined to get this plan off the ground. If Hydaelyn and Zodiark were once equals in the Sea, that's a 50/50 spread. Zodiark takes a bit more than this, threatens the balance, and gets himself expelled. When the fabric of the cosmos buckles under this stress; Hydaelyn and Zodiark's power are shattered and cast through the new 13 dimensions. 7 rejoinings have occurred so far. 7 is a majority; 54%. It might be enough to get Zodiark jump-started, at least.

That's always been part of the problem for me, thematically. If the game ends without any more Calamities, there were 14 eras of this mess (not counting the hypothetical "prehistoric era" or whatever came before the division, of course); a satisfying and appropriate number. And if there are any more Calamities, now that we know what they are, that's a huge burden on the Warrior of Light's shoulders. Millions upon millions of deaths we failed to prevent while we were grinding Pagos and playing Triple Triad and doing jumping puzzles in Costa del Sol. Would they do that to us?

With all this talk of balance...

Does Elidibus really serve it? Or does he just point to babysitting of the unreliable, overzealous overlords (preventing another Flood of Darkness) so that he can call into question whether everything he does to work against us might be necessary to prevent a Flood of Light? Zodiark doesn't want a Flood. Nobody wants a Flood. Do we ever see Elidibus promoting balance when imbalance would benefit Zodiark?

For all we know re-merging Zodiark with Hydaelyn simply allows Him to use His majority aetherial share to suppress Her and claim stable dominion.

And if Hydaelyn promotes completely extinguishing Darkness, why do Her children spend their entire short-lived existence waging an internal battle with it that some win and some lose? If She made us, She could have made us without Darkness, right?

For all we know, that's Her take on balance; that our short, brutal lives are what inspire us to make the most of things and help each other and keep divine Light / Dark forces in check.

Thy Life is a riddle, to bear rapture and sorrow.
To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow.
In one fleeting moment, from the Land doth life flow.
Yet in one fleeting moment, for anew it doth grow.
In that same fleeting moment,
Thou must live, die, and know.

Reins of hist'ry in the hands of man. Still #TeamHydaelyn

But back to 5.0...

I figure the references to Darkness are mostly because where were are is exactly where Elidibus wants us to be. The allied nations of Eorzea feared the Garleans as impossible to hold back, now we march on their holdings.

At Varis's side, Elidibus is able to convince him that these are necessary sacrifices. Varis may have won the War of Succession but he's losing hearts and minds. Most people in Garlemald seem to get by on the belief that they're a benevolent empire, bringing order and technology and raising cities up - casting down false beliefs, weak leadership, and all who would oppose order and peace. Even Maxima, a ranking member of the Populares, believed this until he saw what was really happening on the fringes of the Empire, telling us, "Clearly, mistakes have been made." If Varis is to stop losing hearts and minds, the people need to be reminded of their enemies and the necessity of crushing them. Varis has the military and the support of the Garlean-supremacists, they just need to look justified. Elidibus is already on that. (And that's assuming he's even in Garlemald alone. Are other Ascians in the fold, unseen?)

So, yes, Eorzea gains new allies, these allies take back two cities, Ilsabard is isolated to one continent and surrounded by aggressors. But the Eorzeans were merely overcoming magitek and an empire divided. What's to stop a united Garlemald from taking it all back now that they could have magicks and the Echo itself? And what will Eorzea do to stop them when it all hits the fan?

This looks like little more than classic Ascian chess to me. The war is now a bit more... balanced. But this leaves a door for the Warrior of Light. After all, we realigned the Dragonsong War from [Ishgard vs. Nidhogg] to be [Ishgard + Dragons vs. Nidhogg + Dragons]. What's to stop us from realigning this war from [Eorzea vs. Garlemald] to [Eorzea + Garlemald vs. Darkness + Garlemald]? What is Elidibus planning to do to slam that door in our face?

Or is this war the last sacrifice needed to kick off Zodiark's resurrection, anyway?

[Kallera]

Even since this came out I was wondering about the vision at the end of 2.0 with the purple crystal who mamy theorize as Zodiark. we don't get visions of the future, so that has to be from the past...

[Lauront]

I think there is going to be a lot of coming around to be done by several NPCs. I don't know that Nero would be on the front line of it. Nero is more well known for his pride, I think he may help but I don't see him playing a bigger role than what Biggs and Wedge are. I think Cid is going to have to come to terms with liberating his home land from rule and will be a point guy for being companion to the next expansion as he should have a better lay of the land than anyone. Either way it will be interesting if Cid `n crew end up having to meet up with Shadowhunter.


Speaking of Shadowhunter (I am not saying he is Gaius, but he is Gaius) his homeland isn't the same homeland he descended from. The XIVth was essentially rogue from the empire with the succession. I don't see him being an ally but a neutral party looking for one thing. Cold. Hard. Revenge. For the loss of home, conquest, and his way of life.


I would like to point out (by speculation) that violet is also an association of the color of the Void and Voidsent. We must not forget the deeds of the empire past. How allagan technology that was meant to be used to open a portal to the Void brought upon us the Calamity of Dalamud. In "The Rising" past we sought to look forward in expansions and I don't think that they would stray from tradition.

What is Unukalhai doing these days with his violet eyes and born of the world of void? Sent by Elidibus to preserve the balance no less. Better yet what did the empire "borrow" from the technologies and studies they found in Azys La? They sent Regula's body back at some point. I would assume from the Garlean point of view they wouldn't leave empty handed even if Regula in the end didn't want the Eikon control technology to end up in the empire....

We... still... do not know whose face Varis saw in Elidibus. We know that Varis called the gang of Ascian's "Shadowless charlatans." So it seems that Shadow is a prevailing theme among everything Garlean. Does the Empire truly dangle in the marionette of the Ascian threat or is assistance actually mutually brokered? Varis has no real love of family but a returning general back from going toe to toe with the WoL and lived to tell the tale is a beneficial influence to at least the Garlean army.

Just stuff that ran around in my head. :3

Hmmm it is probably the Ascians, though. Elidibus's words to Varis and Gaius's deeds indicate the Ascians are more active than ever in Garlean territory. They're also able to freely control and summon entities from the Void. I suspect if/when Zodiark perishes, we may see a bigger threat from the Void, as it is a world filled with aether-starved mutated monstrosities. However, for now, I think if we do see them they'll be Ascian servants.

I think the Warring Triad stuff is interesting, if they were to act upon it, and it may provide some hints as to how Aulus was able to set up mutant factories so fast (i.e. using Allagan aetherochemistry), although I still suspect with regard to the Resonance specifically, Ascian involvement is at hand. The Emperor is very obviously leery of the Ascians, but he seems to at least pretend to trust Elidibus. We don't really know Elidibus's true end game and I think that's what introduces a lot of uncertainty. It's worth noting Regula was in favour of the Echo as a means of battling the Eikons and the Resonance is in effect a quasi-Echo.

And yeah, it's interesting that they're shadowless but that they seem to be the reason behind the expansion's name, if it turns out to be right. As noted, perhaps it is the shadow cast by their deeds...

I'm not big on the liberation theme, but it may be the Ascians rather than Varis from which Garlemald is saved.

I'd assumed the revelation by Elidibus was him taking on Zenos's guise. It'd be interesting if it were someone else like, say, Gaius, but I'm dubious that it is.

[Lauront]

I don't see any reason to have faith that Elidibus has any interest at heart but Zodiark's; I just think he's good at reframing actions that would otherwise confuse us as somehow necessary or even benevolent by withholding crucial information and context.

The same could be said of Hydaelyn at this point.

It may be that if she simply compelled obedience, it would matter less than if it were freely given. Perhaps the same applies for fealty to both gods. Unalkahai, after all, despite being Elidibus's disciple, does not appear to be evil. Perhaps even the Ascians were once individuals with such free choice, who chose to bind themselves to Zodiark instead. They're certainly not human or even corporeal life forms, but perhaps they once were. Perhaps she is not even really the creator at all, and cannot compel such obedience even if she wanted to. There may be some value in not taking everything we believe to know about Hydaelyn at face value, especially after we saw how effectively even a mortal like Thordan could weave a charming deception.

At Varis's side, Elidibus is able to convince him that these are necessary sacrifices. Varis may have won the War of Succession but he's losing hearts and minds. Most people in Garlemald seem to get by on the belief that they're a benevolent empire, bringing order and technology and raising cities up - casting down false beliefs, weak leadership, and all who would oppose order and peace. Even Maxima, a ranking member of the Populares, believed this until he saw what was really happening on the fringes of the Empire, telling us, "Clearly, mistakes have been made." If Varis is to stop losing hearts and minds, the people need to be reminded of their enemies and the necessity of crushing them. Varis has the military and the support of the Garlean-supremacists, they just need to look justified. Elidibus is already on that. (And that's assuming he's even in Garlemald alone. Are other Ascians in the fold, unseen?)

Maybe. I still think they will make use of the internal rift to integrate Garlemald into the alliance, say if the Ascians were to succeed a little too much and endanger Garlemald.

This looks like little more than classic Ascian chess to me. The war is now a bit more... balanced. But this leaves a door for the Warrior of Light. After all, we realigned the Dragonsong War from [Ishgard vs. Nidhogg] to be [Ishgard + Dragons vs. Nidhogg + Dragons]. What's to stop us from realigning this war from [Eorzea vs. Garlemald] to [Eorzea + Garlemald vs. Darkness + Garlemald]? What is Elidibus planning to do to slam that door in our face?

Or is this war the last sacrifice needed to kick off Zodiark's resurrection, anyway?

Yes, I think this will probably be the major "unknown" in this expansion. There's several other Overlords who have not interjected themselves directly yet; they may be yet to come.

[LineageRazor]

I feel like we're going to have face Zodiark at some point before the story can end, but with multiple shards still not having been assimilated back into the source, the Ascians would need a way to speed things up either by causing a calamity so bad that the energy of multiple shards is needed to recover from it or they have a plan to break Zodiark's seal without need of a complete rejoining...somehow.

Given that one shard is now forever out of the Ascians' reach (the thirteenth shard, lost to the Void), I think it's a given that a complete rejoining is not necessary. If it was, there'd be no point at all to any of the things the Ascians have done since the thirteenth was lost - an event predating even the earliest historical records.

I, too, assume that we'll have to deal with Zodiark directly at some point - but I think it's likely that the reason that the option of "dealing" with him is even on the table is that the Ascians, perhaps in a moment of desperation, will unseal him prematurely, with far too many Shards still floating around. We'll be fighting a god at a fraction of his original strength.

This also helps to dodge the rather horrific situation where multiple worlds, likely populated by millions or billions of people, need to die at the Ascians' hands before we reach our "endgame".

Unfortunately he is still regarded quite highly by many in Garlemald. It's why I put him in the same category as Lyse - both are very bland characters designed to move the plot along and end up overstaying their welcome whilst conveniently never having to face the consequences of their actions.

Cid's worst crime by far is his PAINFULLY corny dialog. Which we now have to witness again and again and again in CM and Prae. Death would be too kind a punishment.

In all seriousness, though, this IS a war we're talking about. The blame for any lost fathers suffered by Garlean youths is to be laid at the feet of the aggressors - who in this case are the Garlean government and military. It's also unclear just how much in the way of Garlean technology he's actually shared. It's not as though the alliance is fielding armies of spider tanks and magitech weaponry - and I have little doubt that that is technology Cid could easily share if he chose to. At best, the Ironworks seems to be supplying fancier-looking variants of normal Eorzean gear (which, hilariously, become outdated quickly, just like all gear in the game).

While I do agree that the game glamorizes his turncoat status a bit much (all part and parcel of the way they've portrayed the Empire as EEEEEVIL with a capital EEEEE nearly from the beginning), every Garlean life lost to a war that the Garleans continue to perpetuate is on the Garleans' hands (specifically, their warmongering leaders). That little girl should be turning her doe-eyes on Varis, not Cid.

Good memory! Twas 2.3, I think, if you don't count a tiny throwback to it in the Warriors of Darkness arc. Elidibus has from the very beginning had a different mission than the black-robed overlords, and we're clearly meant to think he might have an entirely different worldview, down to questioning whether we should trust him or that he stands for the greater good. (I, for one, do not believe this.)

The main difference I see between Elidibus and the other Ascians is that while they all want to sacrifice countless millions or billions of people to their dark god, Elidibus doesn't see any point in being RUDE about it. If anything, as far as Ascians go, he might be even a bit delusional. He seems to believe that, if only we really understood the situation, we'd totally be on board with all the planet-murder going on. The black robes? Not so much. Or at least, they don't really care whether we buy what they're selling or not.