We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Ilan]

You're right 15 min is probably synced with duty finder. Unsynced solo probably around 6-7 minutes... so about 25 hours to get the same gear as players who cleared savage? Does anyone really think this would be a good idea??

It will take 6-7 minutes if you go and get a coffee + if you go to the toilet every run. But yeah take that time because people are slooooooooooooooooooooow these days.

[OurMom]

It wasn't other MMOs, but other games.

Other games do not operate the same as mmorpgs. So how they do things do don't always work in the mmo world.

[Zojha]

So how they do things do don't always work in the mmo world.

Well, if nobody in the MMO world ever really deviated from that norm (as per your experiences), can we really tell if changing it would not work?

There's little theoretical reason why it shouldn't. The reason why difficulty options arose in gaming is because the skill level of the playerbase varies. If you tune the difficulty to easy, more skilled players get bored. By adding a harder difficulty, you do nothing for less skilled players, but your higher skilled players no longer get (as) bored and thus derive more enjoyment from your game.

If that is the case, it begs the question why higher rewards are needed to compensate for higher enjoyment. And if that is not the case, it begs the question why you add a higher difficulty in the first place.

Conclusion: People are weird.

[Mahrze]

Let me help you relax a bit. We can have a discussion without resorting to insults.

I doubt that counts as an insult but ok. You do you.

It was not my argument originally. It was the OP's argument that time spent in an activity should count toward the reward level regardless of difficulty. He wanted the rewards for Eureka to be the same as Savage raids if the time spend is the same. If that's what he wanted, then someone else doing fates or sastasha or whatever other low difficulty activity should be rewarded at the same level as his Eureka as long as the time invested is equal right? How is that cherry picking? If you want this type of reasoning for rewards then you should apply it evenly to all activities.

And it is, hence why I point it out how your cherry picking on the time investment became moot if we're comparing unsync in time. Since savage becomes cake for those that farm it as soon as nerfs and echo drop. You're standing by how its the best rewards because its the hardest content and by comparison, 50 hrs per relic is still considerably comparable in terms of time invested. If you take longer to achieve the reward in savage then its a different story, after all, its a reward for doing the hardest content and as such only the ones who clear it deserve it.

[Seddrinth]

And it is, hence why I point it out how your cherry picking on the time investment became moot if we're comparing unsync in time. Since savage becomes cake for those that farm it as soon as nerfs and echo drop. You're standing by how its the best rewards because its the hardest content and by comparison, 50 hrs per relic is still considerably comparable in terms of time invested.

5s-8s has not been nerfed and there are no echo for this content. The OP wants Eureka to give the same gear as 5s-8s. If you are trying to argue that old savage content that has been nerfed and echoed should give the same gear as Eureka then that's fine but I don't think the OP would be happy that his Eureka 355/350 is now nerfed to Deltascape 340 ilevel. Maybe you are confused as to what we are discussing but savage content actually takes a level of skill to clear that most players in the game lack. Eureka is mindless grind. How does it make any sense that both should reward the same level items? Might as well just give everyone BiS and not have any content. Let's all just sit around Kugane and afk or admire each other's BiS gear.

If you take longer to achieve the reward in savage then its a different story, after all, its a reward for doing the hardest content and as such only the ones who clear it deserve it.

Why does it matter how long it takes for someone to clear savage? Whether a great player who clears it day 1 or a mediocre player who clears it after 2 months of prog, if you clear the content you get the reward. This system is merit based.

[Zetsumei_Tsunarashi]

Went back and watched this video to reflect on things for the 5 years anniversary. https://youtu.be/1xOOFCltZuc

Without writing a huge long post, I just have to say it feels like the dev team has lost the passion for creating this game that they had back then. To this day, we haven't had anything in the game that lives up to the quality and story significance of that moment. The scene at the end of 2.5 comes close, but it has been a downhill slope ever since.

Then today I came across this lovely youtube creator: https://youtu.be/uPNTicoMF38

And I realized that passion amongst some in the community is still as strong as it was back then. I can only hope that the development team can really find it in themselves to realize that they have strayed from the path and remember their roots that got them where they are today.

This is an image that keeps popping up lately, and with good reason. It's something I think SE really need to reflect on and consider while working on that final push to release 5.0 and beyond.

[Seddrinth]

Well, if nobody in the MMO world ever really deviated from that norm (as per your experiences), can we really tell if changing it would not work?

There's little theoretical reason why it shouldn't. The reason why difficulty options arose in gaming is because the skill level of the playerbase varies. If you tune the difficulty to easy, more skilled players get bored. By adding a harder difficulty, you do nothing for less skilled players, but your higher skilled players no longer get (as) bored and thus derive more enjoyment from your game.

If that is the case, it begs the question why higher rewards are needed to compensate for higher enjoyment. And if that is not the case, it begs the question why you add a higher difficulty in the first place.

Conclusion: People are weird.

The reason you have higher difficulty content with higher rewards because enough players enjoy the competition, whether it be gear, dps percentile, progression, etc. Certain players enjoy being challenged and enjoy competing against other players. You are not hurting the less skilled players because they have plenty of content and plenty of paths to gear up- normal raids, 24 man raids, daily roulette for tokens, Eureka, etc.

[HyoMinPark]

I do not care that someone has better gear than me. But it is rather irritating that I'm being condescended to and insulted by both players that say raiders NEED the best gear and players that say the good gear isn't necessary.

This confirms that you didn’t bother to read any of my past posts to you. Try actually reading them before you make inferences and accuse others of being rude or insulting or condescending to you.

Let me repeat it again: Players that barely do any battle content, such as yourself, and prefer to focus on the crafting/gathering side of the game do not need i370 to beat any of the current mandatory story content. THIS IS NOT SAYING THAT YOU DO NOT DESERVE IT, NOR IS IT BEING CONDESCENDING. The content itself is simply not tuned high enough to make i370 gear MANDATORY FOR CLEARING IT. i350 gear is more than enough to clear the story content, and any other casual content that you may want to do; anything above is simply overkill for the content.

Now, if you are expecting gear to be handed to you, then I would say that you don’t deserve it—you put in the time for it, however, and that is different. Again, why are you so concerned with progressing your battle class gear when you don’t even enjoy/want to participate in battle content? Why aren’t you trying to progress the gear for the things you love (i.e., crafters and gatherers)?

I told you every option you had for upgrading from your current Anemos gear—your response to me was that you “didn’t want to grind it out” because then you “might as well be raiding”. It’s too much for you to take an hour out of your day, 5 days a week, and do Expert Roulette to cap on Mendacity for i360 gear? Trust me, that is not a grind, and it is nothing close to the amount of time raiders put into Savage or Ultimate content.

Apparently not since previous posters have pointed out that gear doesn't truly matter and the real worth of a player is skill. The reward for raiding could be as simple as getting a shiny new achievement checked off in the log and people would still do it. And it would a paradox if raiders needed the end raid reward to beat the raid. That raid gear is only in effect a participation ribbon, so it's purely superfluous.

I feel like this is directed at me, and need I remind you that I only said that skill matters far more than your gear because you were insinuating that gear was all that mattered when determining the worth of a person to a party? That players were judged based off of the gear they wore? They’re actually judged by their numbers, if you didn’t read my reply; not their gear.

There are a multitude of factors that determine a player’s worth to a party and whether or not they are being a burden, but a BiS BRD that won’t support their party is far less useful than a BRD in i350 that bends over backwards and performs their role to a T.

Savage gear is actually needed and used to progress in Ultimate for those who tackle that content, as it actually matters in there—you aren’t clearing Ultimate in i350 no matter how god-tier you are: you simply won’t have the HP or damage to survive.

[Ilan]

Went back and watched this video to reflect on things for the 5 years anniversary. https://youtu.be/1xOOFCltZuc

Without writing a huge long post, I just have to say it feels like the dev team has lost the passion they had for creating this game that they had back then. To this day, we haven't had anything in the game that lives up to the quality and story significance of that moment. The scene at the end of 2.5 comes close, but it has been a downhill slope ever since.

Then today I came across this lovely youtube creator: https://youtu.be/uPNTicoMF38

And I realized that passion amongst some in the community is still as strong as it was back then. I can only hope that the development team can really find it in themselves to realize that they have strayed from the path and remember their roots that got them where they are today.

This is an image that keeps popping up lately, and with good reason. It's something I think SE really need to reflect on and consider while working on that final push to release 5.0 and beyond.

Uhm 2.5? I think HW was overall pretty good only SB is not even close...

[Edax]

This confirms that you didn’t bother to read any of my past posts to you. Try actually reading them before you make inferences and accuse others of being rude or insulting or condescending to you.

Let me repeat it again: Players that barely do any battle content, such as yourself, and prefer to focus on the crafting/gathering side of the game do not need i370 to beat any of the current mandatory story content. THIS IS NOT SAYING THAT YOU DO NOT DESERVE IT, NOR IS IT BEING CONDESCENDING. The content itself is simply not tuned high enough to make i370 gear MANDATORY FOR CLEARING IT. i350 gear is more than enough to clear the story content, and any other casual content that you may want to do; anything above is simply overkill for the content.

Now, if you are expecting gear to be handed to you, then I would say that you don’t deserve it—you put in the time for it, however, and that is different. Again, why are you so concerned with progressing your battle class gear when you don’t even enjoy/want to participate in battle content? Why aren’t you trying to progress the gear for the things you love (i.e., crafters and gatherers)?

Please read my comments and don't put words in my mouth. I DO NOT WANT GEAR HANDED TO ME. That is the opposite of what I want. I want more paths to improve my character. Repeatedly insisting I should do expert roulettes or raiding is missing the point. There can be more options and more content. Why does have to only be tomes or raids? I've played MMORPGs for over a decade, so declaring that I do not know what they are is a condescending insult.
YOUR OPINION IS NOT LAW.
I DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU.
REPEATING YOURSELF DOES NOT MAKE YOU CORRECT.

I am a casual player but I always seek to improve my character but I'm not a min/maxer. The problem is that despite the limited amount of time I play this game and despite my laidback style, I'm constantly hitting a limit. When I'm leveling through the game for the first time, I have so many different methods of leveling my character and getting better armor, via quests, crafting, duties, Palace of the Dead and hunts. Endgame, the methods of self-improvement shrink so dramatically, it's either tomes or raids. I buy a piece of gear with the tomes and I've effectively maxed out that gear piece (for half a year?) since I do not raid regularly. But with Pagos designed to be frustrating and not offering gear beyond a relic, I've once again hit that wall where my combat classes aren't doing anything. If the crafting system were more developed, or the tomes more developed with an extra tier, I'd still have something to do.
The core problem: not enough endgame content.