We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Dualgunner]

But casuals can have the same ilv as raiders, through tome gear. So I don't see the issue here. Like I said as well, Anemos rewarded gear that contends for BiS for some jobs when Savage gear isn't taken into account.

If by "simultaneously" you mean "same patch", Gordias came out 3.05, Diadem was 3.1, so that descriptor doesn't work either. Also in 3.1 was Void Ark, which gave out the Mhachi items that were traded in for gobdips etc to upgrade 200 to 210 as well, as I recall. The 24 mans do that to this day, btw.

If you're talking Diadem 2.0, which had the 280 weapon, you should note relic weapon holders were a lot more vocal than raiders about it at that point.

[Claviusnex]

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If you're talking Diadem 2.0, which had the 280 weapon, you should note relic weapon holders were a lot more vocal than raiders about it at that point.

Which brings me to my biggest peeve with this game. SE's insistence that we have large group scenarios for all of this stuff but won't fix their infrastructure to support it. I'm tired of object culling removing my current target, hiding AoE's and hiding party members standing next to me. It has been a problem with world bosses, Diadem FATES and Eureka NM's (which are really just another FATE). I've argued with SE about fixing their culling algorithm but they had no interest there acting like they had no idea what I was talking about. SE needs to quit creating large group content unless they get serious about fixing their code platform.

[RiyahArp]

If you're talking Diadem 2.0, which had the 280 weapon, you should note relic weapon holders were a lot more vocal than raiders about it at that point.

That wasn't true. The complaints were from raiders annoyed that they needed to do a heavy RNG grind for a BiS weapon, to prepare for the next progression race, and raiders annoyed it had better stats than savage gear. I don't think relic people cared as much, since people don't get relics due to being useful BIS weapons; they always lagged behind savage gear except for brief periods.

The raiders, while I'm not a fan of them personally, generally don't affect gameplay much because SE cordons off high-end raiding from the rest of the game. The danger with them in my opinion is the requests to make the game overall harder at all levels, to make players git gud.

f) No offense but FFXIV doesn't capture audience, as an example, currently, FFXIV has as much viewers as fallout IV on twitch. Also, FFXIV isn't really more successful than what FFXI used to be back in the day.

Twitch in general only has high view numbers for maybe 14-15 games at a time, then they drop heavily. I don't know why people even worry about it, people who watch games do so because they don't want to play them. That's why God of War for ps4 was so big on it, for one reason.

[Dualgunner]

That wasn't true. The complaints were from raiders annoyed that they needed to do a heavy RNG grind for a BiS weapon, to prepare for the next progression race, and raiders annoyed it had better stats than savage gear. I don't think relic people cared as much, since people don't get relics due to being useful BIS weapons; they always lagged behind savage gear except for brief periods.

What "next progression race"? It was the end of the expansion. Any raider who genuinely thought they needed a 280 for the "next progression race" is outright dumb, because the weapons we had starting at Lv70 were i290 and we were i314 total by the time Deltascape even started. Basically everybody knew and acknowledged that all Creator Savage-tier gear would be outdated by Lv66.

No, it was relic grinders who threw a tantrum because they were running on the precedent set by Square in ARR that their relic weapons would be BiS until the next expansion came out; instead they were outdated within a month.

Issue is FFXIV is marketed like a RPG.

It's marketed like an MMO.

As for wow popularity, there were other factors at play during the TBC era but I won't dwell into that here because that's beside the point (it has something to do with the elitism issue of TBC).

Right. I suppose it's always elitism in the end, so easy to blame all the problems on it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That wasn't true. The complaints were from raiders annoyed that they needed to do a heavy RNG grind for a BiS weapon, to prepare for the next progression race, and raiders annoyed it had better stats than savage gear. I don't think relic people cared as much, since people don't get relics due to being useful BIS weapons; they always lagged behind savage gear except for brief periods.

The raiders, while I'm not a fan of them personally, generally don't affect gameplay much because SE cordons off high-end raiding from the rest of the game. The danger with them in my opinion is the requests to make the game overall harder at all levels, to make players git gud.

Layla Bell outright said "Anyone who cares about those i280 weapons is an idiot." If you're not familiar with him, He's from Elysium. Likewise, Angered members, Xeno and many other hardcore raiders had similar sentiments. My own thoughts aligned with theirs in the sense it appeared more like a desperate attempt to try and get people to actually bother with Diadem. The people upset were generally relic grinders, especially as this relaunch came out nine days after the final relic step. Raiders were long done with Creator by then.

[RiyahArp]

Layla Bell outright said "Anyone who cares about those i280 weapons is an idiot.".

No, at that time you were doing relics just to do something, and anyone who seriously did them really didn't need them or care about BiS. If i remember some of the relics even weren't BiS anyways; they were subject to the same weird stat pool SE lieks to give casual gear. The raiders who complained weren't the world first crew, but the people who wanted to prog or try it and were worried about it acting as a barrier, because you know if it had mattered elysium would have gone out and farmed them up stat. The reason why those raiders set that was that they realized the percent chance of getting those weapons were so low that they didn't act as any barrier at all.

I mean, i have about 7 completed HW relics, and the value of them was something you could work for solo at your own pace which looked really cool. Diadem if anything didn't even have the look cool part, all the random pieces were basic 30ish armor in appearance if i remembr right.

[Mahrze]

If i remember some of the relics even weren't BiS anyways; they were subject to the same weird stat pool SE lieks to give casual gear.

Relics are not BiS when the two main stats were custom made? Are you sure?!

[Ilan]

If i remember some of the relics even weren't BiS anyways...

You remember completly wrong. Relics were BiS because you could choose which stats you add....

[Sigma-Astra]

I'm confused on how one person is saying that WoW wasn't inspired or designed, at least, on it's first leg and basis from the Warcraft RTS games. Literally, they took the story and lore of what they already had and expanded upon it until they got their financial motherload project which turned into WoW. It's not surprising to see how expansive they were able to go from an RTS setting towards an MMORPG setting. They took something existing inside an already rigid structure, because let's face it that's what RTS games are, and went full blown creative with it.

But, to say that the two are only relative to each other out of lore is a half-truth. Warcraft involved into World of Warcraft and all large projects had to start small somewhere. For XIV, it was XI and 1.0.

Warcraft gave birth to World of Warcraft. I mean, it's literally part of WoW's name.

[Dualgunner]

You customized your own stats on the relic weapons, giving you the advantage to fine tune them to be your best possible stats. That's what made the relic BiS before the diadem weapon came out.

Also I noticed you dodged the point. There was no race for anybody to care about at that point. The 280 weapon was an expac ending weapon, it would be outdated before the next relevant raid content came out.

That wasn't true. The complaints were from raiders annoyed that they needed to do a heavy RNG grind for a BiS weapon, to prepare for the next progression race, and raiders annoyed it had better stats than savage gear.

The raiders who complained weren't the world first crew, but the people who wanted to prog or try it and were worried about it acting as a barrier, because you know if it had mattered elysium would have gone out and farmed them up stat.

So which was it? World firsters who care about "the next progression race" or not?