State of the Game: Personal Player Feedback and Stats on PvE Content [No Parsers Plz]

[Pastahnak]

I've read through and it sounds like OP wants an after the fact ranking system of stats or some sort to give things more playability I guess, I don't really see the point tbh. You say no parsers but your asking for a crappy version of a parse and I guess if this system would bring us closer to an in game parser I'm all for it but honestly I'd just rather have a full parser. As a PS4 user it just blows not knowing if I'm doing awesome or I'm being carried and more often than not my mind makes me feel the later and it plain sucks. Being able to see what my damage is like and others being able to look up in game where my faults in my game play are to help me improve is more important to me than a leader board that won't help me improve. If a leader board system happened as a result of them adding in a parse I'm 100% in, but as of now I value an in game parser over what your asking for.

[Dzian]

In honesty, if it even just gets that person thinking about what might have gone wrong to cause that drop in rank then that's a big win in my book as that's precisely what I'm gunning for.

My point is generally if your not going to give people the information on why or where they are going wrong how is it going to help anyone?

That's basically like me going into a duty and saying hey random person your playing Sam wrong? And leaving it at that. It's not helpful it's not constructive it serves no purpose at all if I'm not going to provide information on how or where they might improve.

If I said to someone hey your playing Sam wrong and they cared. The first thing they would ask for is information to why or what they are doing wrong...

Without that info it serves no purpose.

I've not touched my Dragon since slotting fire on it and levelling it to 50 in natalan way back in 1.0. So to say I'm clueless about the class and it's skills is an understatement.

If I were to throw some gear on it and jump into say wod via alliance roulette mash some buttons because as I said in absolutely clueless about drg. And at the end of the raid all it says hey you got a "D" but doesn't tell me anything else about why i got a D. then in what way is that going to help me or anyone else at al?
If it isn't going to give me some usable info that might suggest how or where I could improve get a C or B Then it's worthless.

[Fhaerron]

So you're saying 'no to parser', but basically you're asking for a parser ...

A parser with 90% of it's features stripped and under a different name.

[Ilyrian]

Ranking healers is kind of pointless as the amount of healing done is inversely proportional to how well the group is playing.
If you were grading on healer damage done - again it's down to how well your group is playing and proportional to how much healing was done. And how good/bad/indifferent the other healer is.

Edit: that said - I support some kind of parsers. I don't know how people play a DPS class without them.

[Sebazy]

@Dzian - I still think you’re coming at this from the wrong angle. Very significant portions of the playerbase underperform massively across wide swathes of the games content. I don’t think anyone can dispute this? Now it’s a given that a good chunk of these people simply don’t care. There’s not really anything that can be done here. Neither of our approaches are going to work, again, I think we can both agree on that.

Now, there are people that are likely well aware that they are under performing but don’t understand the game well enough to fix it themselves. This is the demographic you are concerned with right? The problem I see with this is that there’s a multitude of ways for these people to work on this already. Raiding friends, linkshells, fcs, balance discord, youtube guides, novice network (where applicable ofc). There’s already a wealth of info out there that’s rarely anything more than a google search or some tooltip math away.

Meanwhile I’m concerned with the people that simply have no idea that what they are doing might well be intrinsicly wrong and flawed. These people are surprisingly common, the 300/700 dps in rabanastre couple that got massively offended when the gf of the pair got kicked because they were a flat out hinderance. The 0 dps WHM I had a couple of days ago in swallows compass with near zero cooldown and ogcd usage but still ran oom on bosses in short order. These people frequently have no idea that they are potentially a big detriment to their party and as things stand, the only prompting they get about this is at best when grouches like myself at least try to push them along with positive feedback or worse, when they flat out get abuse and votekicks hurled at them.

This game does a horrible job of giving any kind of feedback at all to the player, this is a deliberately simplistic means of correcting that.

Complicating the system by making it distinguish rotation errors vs poor uptime vs low APM is just going to turn something like this from a fairly simple task with little to no maintainence into a much more significant task that’ll need work everytime any job gets a fairly significant adjustment.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d absolutely love a full blown in client parser too. But it’s pretty obvious that we’re not getting that without a very big and united push from the playerbase as a whole. And that’s not happening any time soon if these board are to be believed.

@Ilyrian - What do you think about the idea of gradeing a healer by their opportunities for cooldown and oGCD usage vs the time taken in that duty?

[Derio]

The real question is how can this not be used as a tool to harass people?

I dont see any way it could not be.

[Ilyrian]

@Ilyrian - What do you think about the idea of gradeing a healer by their opportunities for cooldown and oGCD usage vs the time taken in that duty?

I think that's an interesting way to come at it. But given the reactionary nature of healing it could perhaps force people into a play style or 'rotation' that doesn't fit every encounter?
Would healers feel under pressure to press buttons when they don't need to? There are so many variable I'm not sure it fits the healing play style. How would damage be taken into account?
Would casting a damage spell instead of using a healing cool down negatively effect the outcome?

I also wonder how many people would switch over to being tanks and healers full time if a parser system was introduced... it may actually have a positive effect on the queue times ?

[Nora_of_Mira]

Really that's a long way of saying, we need systems in the game to help educate players.

My issue with this method of teaching casual players to "get better" is same one as old as time: the content they're doing isn't properly challenging them. There's a reason most people that use parers dont bother turning it on during Duty roulettes, it simply doesnt matter as it can all be done blindfolded with one hand.

These stats you suggest seem to me to only be an arbitrary pat on the back for doing content that was created with the lowest skill playerbase in mind.

At the end of day, as someone that went from casual to hardcore content, I think the people that want to improve their gameplay will seek and find the means to do so anyway by talking to other players, finding guides online, and finding their numbers compared to other players of the same iLvl and job.

[Dzian]

This game does a horrible job of giving any kind of feedback at all to the player, this is a deliberately simplistic means of correcting that.

I don't dispute that at all. All I'm saying is that if your going to give players feedback then it needs to be both constructive and actionable if it's going to be worthwhile.

Meanwhile I’m concerned with the people that simply have no idea that what they are doing might well be intrinsicly wrong and flawed. These people are surprisingly common, the 300/700 dps in rabanastre couple that got massively offended when the gf of the pair got kicked because they were a flat out hinderance. The 0 dps WHM I had a couple of days ago in swallows compass with near zero cooldown and ogcd usage but still ran oom on bosses in short order.

My question is still what good is telling these players they're crap or playing wrong going to be if the system isn't going to tell them why there crap or what they are doing wrong. There no constructive input there or actionable information. So again How do you expect those players to fix there issues if they don't know what those issues are?

[Remedi]

At the end of day, as someone that went from casual to hardcore content, I think the people that want to improve their gameplay will seek and find the means to do so anyway by talking to other players, finding guides online, and finding their numbers compared to other players of the same iLvl and job.

It's what I believe too, If someone that doesn't have the will to improve or challenge him/herself goes from casual to hardcore content, it's more than likely that he/she will quit it if there isn't a change in disposition and sadly that's the case for most underpeforming players, If there's no will to understand and improve the systems are more than likely to be abused than used to better onself