Don't ask, don't tell - Relationship Thought Experiment

[Skivvy]

If someone online is telling their entire social circle that they are a certain gender, -usually- it means they are that gender (whether they are cisgender, trans, etc).

Well yeah, sure. If their entire social circle is being told something, I'd assume that would be true most of the time. But this thread wasn't about if/how people disclose their gender to their main group of friends.

[Knahli]

No, I just recognize that usually when someone is non-rp representing themselves as a certain gender online to everyone they know, they are doing it because it's more comfortable to just be themselves online (even if they can't be that way in real life).

So far the only 2 reasons I've seen anyone in this thread put forth for why a "male" would "pretend" to be female to date someone (other than that they are actually female inside) is that:

1. they are gay and trying to trick straight people into dating them (which honestly seems like a pretty "gays are evil watch out" homophobic argument).

2. they want to use people for gil (in which case, why does it matter that they end up being a guy. As girls could easily use people for gil as well and it would be just as bad).

Just for the sake of providing some more examples that come to mind then...


1. They are highly insecure and enjoy the comforts of presenting themselves as a real life female, given that its not unreasonable to believe that they will be treated better or more nicely by people they meet.
2. They lack confidence and feel that having the "I'm actually a girl" gimmick will make them a more appealing personality to potential friends or otherwise, superficial as that clearly would be.
3. Females can attract shallow-minded and easily manipulated males and some guys may enjoy preying on that small sense of power by surrounding themselves with minions that believe they can do nor say no wrong.
4. Some guys play female characters and do not correct feminine pronouns as they don't see it as important or instead as a reference to the character itself and unintentionally lead people into believing that they are indeed female... which they may then either not feel is not worth correcting - due to a lack of importance - or perhaps even fear it a bit for worry it may seem intentional or awkward.
5. Some guys may feel that they have a better chance of making female friends if they - at least initially - sell the idea that they are female in real life, under the belief that girls are more likely to be open to friendship with fellow girls rather than guys interested in something else entirely.


The purpose for presenting yourself as a different gender needn't have roots in your desire to have a romantic relationship with someone, it can just be an unstoppable consequence of the way you have already been acting or a move of desperation due to a lack of confidence. While the approach is obviously begging to crash and burn, it does not mean people do not engage in it.

[Ilan]

1. they are gay and trying to trick straight people into dating them (which honestly seems like a pretty "gays are evil watch out" homophobic argument).

This is invalid because they wouldn't gain anything from it since a straight person doesn't wind up gay. If someone encounters that the person is gay (if you don't talk via discord or what ever its your own fault if you end up with a fake date) and is not into that the date won't happen.

[Usho]

1. Not everyone is a straight white male. Servers like Balmung and certain Korean servers prob have equal gender ratios.

2. Relationship disappointment effects everyone, generally in the same way. No one likes being lied to or led on.

3. If someone identifies as a girl, they are a "real girl". Acting like someone isn't a real girl because they were born male is transphobic. It's not every trans person's responsibility to wear a sign around telling you they used to be a diff gender.

4. It's not hard to discuss relationship boundaries. And there is nothing wrong with not disclosing your gender online. If person X isn't committing to a relationship with person Y, then person X has no reason to disclose their gender. If you need to know someones gender to be friends with them, it's a bit messed up. Especially if as a male, you're only investing in said friendship because you expect the female to give you something "more" than friendship. And if you are getting angry/frustrated because someone you like isn't reciprocating those feelings, you're acting entitled.

This entire post seems to try and justify some sexist idea of online relationships.

Online relationships are simple: treat them like real ones, if that's what you are looking for. Be honest with each other, and discuss boundaries. Not complicated.

Additionally, "real girls" don't exist online as objects for guys to try and "hook up with"

^ This.


Also Fox, Why the hell would you title this thread after a harmful policy put in place years ago to discriminate on LGBT people? Next time, if you're doing a topic like this, try a title that's not homophobic. Just saiyan.




/2 cents

[Brightamethyst]

I'm assuming that -most- (not all) people expressing themselves as a "different" gender online aren't doing it for nefarious purposes. They are just being themselves. And I'm saying it's transphobic to call them "fake" for it. Regardless of how they express their gender in real life.

You're assuming a lot here. While certainly there are some trans players who use their characters to express their preferred gender, they're the vast minority. You don't really think that 50% of male players are secretly trans, do you?

Most people playing opposite gender characters do so for other reasons (prefer the look, etc.)

If someone online is telling their entire social circle that they are a certain gender, -usually- it means they are that gender (whether they are cisgender, trans, etc).

Again, you're assuming things that aren't really true. Most people don't lie about it when asked, especially to their friends. Often it just doesn't come up at all until you start talking about personal lives (or join voice chat where it's often obvious.)

[kamenkuro]

This thread is a good example of why you just ignore anyone that uses cis unironically

[Vstarstruck]

Honestly I think a don’t ask, don’t tell policy would be far better for the majority of people here (being straight males).

first off, no, do not assume this.
Second of all, it depends what is happening. If things start getting serious you should be honest i mean..:

I wanted to respond to this very delicately because I don't intend to offend you or make you feel like your thought on this doesn't matter. Clearly it's something you've sunk considerable time into thinking about.

I just don't think that this sort of expectation is a healthy thing to have, and I say this as someone who was in an online relationship as a kid. I met someone and we talked every day over AIM/MSN messenger and eventually he asked me to be his "official" girlfriend. I would ask him about talking on the phone sometimes since it seemed reasonable enough, I even offered to give him my phone number and everything so he could know I wasn't some crazy person who was going to stalk him.

Turns out the reason he never wanted to take our conversations out of text was because "he" was a girl. We wound up having a big emotional blowup when he told me. He (she? Its weird, still he in my head) wound up calling me after a few hours. Explained his feelings. I tried to be sympathetic but I had sunk so much time and emotion into this person and it just hurt to know that it was all for nothing.

I even tried to convince myself that I could try being bi because it seemed like changing my sexuality would be eaiser than giving up a relationship I had been in for a year. It was really messed up, it caused us both a lot of stress and sadly now we don't even talk. He can't see me as just a friend and I can't forget how shitty he made me feel.

I feel like the system you're advocating for is almost guaranteed to create these sort of situations en-masse and as someone who was in one I would hate for that to happen.

When people can separate RP from irl by all means go wild with it but this is almost calling for you to have a way to blur those lines. I think it could lead to a lot of sad people and broken hearts.

Again, I don't mean to be harsh or anything, just wanted to voice my opinion.

holy crap, talk about a change. Most of these stories is.. 2 guys playing girl chrs. I know one story where ... it was 2 in game chrs as female, one was honest about being a guy in rl, but the other wasn't, then it got serious and transferred servers. On the new server one of them ended up completely deleting their character because of the embarrassment of finding out they where 2 guys.

^ This.


Also Fox, Why the hell would you title this thread after a harmful policy put in place years ago to discriminate on LGBT people? Next time, if you're doing a topic like this, try a title that's not homophobic. Just saiyan.




/2 cents

im missing the connection to the thread title and what you are claiming. Did they really do that? I mean if they did, ok to call them out on that but, I just do not see it.

Also why is this thread tagged with " sjw crap "
O_o

I honestly feel like you’re bring a bit too much tumblr into a thread that probably isn’t even about transphobia at all.

I really think a lot of this is based on misunderstanding and agree this thread was not meant for this discussion =/

Lastly, I think faux female is used wrong in the tc, but I can't be sure

[Rokke]

Also why is this thread tagged with " sjw crap "
O_o

^ kamenkuro has a habot of leaving tags like that in topics he "disagrees" with, so if I had to take a guess where they came from...

[JumperX]

There was a misunderstand, AND an unmentioned problem to why this player reacted that way they did.

Thr OP was talking probably about the straight males who play as these "flaux girls" because they gained many benefits. I've seen it and was guilty of not saying anything because the people doing it were two well-known members of the guild I used to he part of. I didn't want the guild gaining a bad reputation so I was never actively saying it to the public, but tried to alert the people they were involve with quietly (sadly they didn't listen to ke because they believed more in these "two girls" that dude was flirting with).

Then there is another portion of straight and cis/trans males who don't want to date trans girls because they consider them flaux girls, AND there are bi/gay cis males who wouldn't date trans guys because they see them as "fake guys."

I think Azurymber got a good intension yo say how people don't consider trana girls as real girls, but there are two mistakes. First of all, the OP didnt talk about that because (I'm assuming here) he is only consider meeting up with cis girls?
Two, azurymber please stop with the whole omg trans girls. There are trans guys too. If you are going to talk about some sorta rejection do it in the correct topic and include them all jist not. Trans females (I'm a bit tired to only hear about trans females as if that was the only thing out there.

[Lunaxia]

Days without a thread being turned into a pointless argument based on misunderstanding the OP: 0.

To respond directly to the OP, your post effectively boils down to "men who are lonely and desperate for companionship should pretend whoever they're talking to is a girl just to fulfill their need for intimacy", which is not only a terrible idea that would inevitably end in disappointment, hurt and anger for everyone involved, but encourages deeply unhealthy behaviour and propagates the notion FFXIV is a suitable outlet for these feelings. It's not, it's a game, and the community - in particular female characters, be it controlled by a man or woman - is not here to help you deal with your frustrations.

If you are that desperate for a relationship that you are willing to pretend a guy is a girl just to feel something, please take yourself off the game and go outside. Meet people. Join dating websites. Go for speed dating. Deluding yourself about an online relationship really isn't the answer.