Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

[24spencer]

You're too fast. You're too slow. Why're you in tank stance? Why are you not in tank stance? Keep threat, I shouldn't need diversion. Why're yo doing enmity combo's?

^ Those are just some of what I've recieved leveling a DRK alt and doing the story with. Now let's look at responses I've gotten for healing.

DPS more. Stop DPSing you're a healer. Why're you AST (This was during 3.0). Heal me I'm not moving.

Now let's look at responses I've been told for when I go in things as dps.

... Diversion.

Gee, you're right. Tanks and healers don't have more crap to deal with. Also, bonus note, I mentioned the ghosts because that is the game's personal dps check, and it's easy to beat said check on the job with the lowest dps. And yet I have seen dps fail that check, and we still kill the fight. Imagine if your healers failed the healer check on the ghosts.

responsibility in terms of game mechanics =/= responsibility to listen to df monkeys who can't find their own underwear in the morning
since we're sharing fun, totally unprovable anecdotes in lieu of actual examples. here are things i've been told as dps!

"why didn't you palisade that worthless idiot"
"you should have used foes for my flares noob"
"useless melee dps spamming 120 potency as usual" (in an aoe pull)
"fucking manashift me drg"
"give me tether idiot" (said by a tank)

"but yeah i have some anecdotal examples that counteract something you didn't say so i win uwu"

[Deathgiver]

no and not once did i suggest that lmao im just pointing out that the "responsibility" and "difficulty" of playing a tank or a healer in most content is massively overstated.

yeah you're right i've never done it at all

I mean you have 2 examples of raids that you were off tank and don't require any positioning of the boss, both are basically tank and spank fights.

[Jijifli]

responsibility in terms of game mechanics =/= responsibility to listen to df monkeys who can't find their own underwear in the morning
since we're sharing fun, totally unprovable anecdotes in lieu of actual examples. here are things i've been told as dps!

"why didn't you palisade that worthless idiot"
"you should have used foes for my flares noob"
"useless melee dps spamming 120 potency as usual" (in an aoe pull)
"fucking manashift me drg"
"give me tether idiot" (said by a tank)

"but yeah i have some anecdotal examples that counteract something you didn't say so i win uwu"

Hmm. Maybe it's just because they're too stingy about my diversion.

But you still kinda ignored me pointing out the actual game mechanics. You know, like Tsukuyomi's hilariously slow enrage timer that I only learned was even a thing when a friend said their party, the SCH was top dps on someone's parse. And still ignored how an AST, healer with the lowest dps, can get past the dps check ghosts while some dps I got to watch couldn't. Those aren't Duty Finder loud mouth talks, In fact those pieces of content aren't even in the traditional duty finder.

The game does hold a dps player's hand and doesn't convince them to improve, because it doesn't put an expectation for them to. DPS do have the easiest to explain job. You hit the thing as hard as you can. And since we're in a game where tanks and healers also maximize their damage, you know, the dps's job, it'd be nice if they did the thing they are kinda there to do on a base level.

But what do I know? I'm just one of those toxic mentors. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[24spencer]

I mean you have 2 examples of raids that you were off tank and don't require any positioning of the boss, both are basically tank and spank fights.

And I have a Byakko 96% where i was the maintank as a PLD but that's not the point i even posted that, just trying to point out that it's bullshit to claim that someone has "clearly never played a role at high end" just because you're upset that they don't think it's as hard as you do.

[Dualgunner]

The game does hold a dps player's hand and doesn't convince them to improve, because it doesn't put an expectation for them to. DPS do have the easiest to explain job. You hit the thing as hard as you can. And since we're in a game where tanks and healers also maximize their damage, you know, the dps's job, it'd be nice if they did the thing they are kinda there to do on a base level.

But what do I know? I'm just one of those toxic mentors. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I take a bit of issue with DPS having the easiest to explain job. Sure, "hit the thing, do damage." But as we see, a lot of people don't know how to hit the thing very hard.

The game leaves DPS players in the dark as to how to play and optimize their job to any basic level, especially on some jobs like Machinist, Summoner, Dragoon, and Ninja where the ultimate goal of the job's rotation is often completely unintuitive. The players then have to manage entire strings of combos and battling their own job's mechanics while shifting in and out of death zones on the map while simultaneously helping with: aggro management (ninja, diversion), raidwide mitigation (addle, feint), tank mitigation (apocatastasis, palisade), personal healing/mitigation (manawall, bloodbath), and raising (summoner, red mage).

In terms of difficulty, I would say that DPS is a much more difficult role to play well than tank, but feel free to disagree. Managing a long and complex rotation string amidst not only a boss' mechanics, but also how your tanks choose to hold the boss, where to hold the boss, knowing that every mess up could mean an entire re-ordering of skills and a chunk of damage missing while one tries to get oneself back in order seems inherently more difficult than making sure you have the positioning right, making sure you cool down every tank buster, and otherwise managing a fairly simple DPS rotation on the side.

Compare optimizing a Ninja to a Warrior, or a Machinist to a Paladin in any fight. Granted, some DPS jobs are easier to optimize (RDM) and some tanks are harder to optimize (DRK).

EDIT: Saw somebody post this in another thread, I think it summarizes what I was trying to say a lot better: DPS have a low skill floor, but a very high skill ceiling. Tanks have a high skill floor, but a low skill ceiling.

But I mean, what do I know, I'm only also a toxic mentor. *shrug*

[Sir_Johni]

And I have a Byakko 96% where i was the maintank as a PLD but that's not the point i even posted that, just trying to point out that it's bullshit to claim that someone has "clearly never played a role at high end" just because you're upset that they don't think it's as hard as you do.

Wew lad, bringing EX parses into a discussion about capabilities in savage, that's a nice meme

Anyhow the only fight this tier that sorta tests your capabilities as a tank is Godka the rest require very little in regards to tanking itself, it's a fun fight I recommend doing it

[Jijifli]

But I mean, what do I know, I'm only also a toxic mentor. *shrug*

I guess I should have noted, I'm basing my statements without a third party parser messing with it. You can tell easily in game if a tank or healer is bad, but a dps? Run's just slower. It's harder to tell who/what is wrong when it's a dps, as they also take up half the group.

But mentioning dps players in the dark, that's an example of what people mean when tanks and healers end up taking all the responsibility. Because there's no easy way to tell what the dps is doing wrong (unless it's no aoe in big pulls). But your tank pulls one too many groups for the healer to handle? Better cuss him out, follow him outside of the dungeon, and make him feel like crap for it. But considering I can still go into expert to see players that don't know how BLM's Blizz/Fire3 works...

[24spencer]

Wew lad, bringing EX parses into a discussion about capabilities in savage, that's a nice meme

it literally wasn't a discussion about capabilities in savage

[Sir_Johni]

it literally wasn't a discussion about capabilities in savage

It kinda turned into one, but I still view EX parses as a meme, especially since there's no compitition with speed runners

Anyhow I am mostly neutral in the discussion of difficulty of tanking, I think it goes both ways with it being a role that is initially hard to get to but once you understand it it's incredibly simplistic

[RiyahArp]

But mentioning dps players in the dark, that's an example of what people mean when tanks and healers end up taking all the responsibility.

The responsibility for either is not particularly hard. Healers only have it hard due to the meta of needing to fill in every cast with DPS when not healing. Tanks are really easy. If anything, its when DPS have that responsibility its worse. As a healer I can always just not do damage in a pinch; a tank can also err on the side of caution and stay in tank stance. But the DPS challenges have no downtime, and it can be harder for them to recover from one death due to slow wipe from enrage.

If you started making DPS responsible you're probably going to make the game very unpleasant, because DPS can't really recover like healers or tanks can. Like i can heal through a healer dying and have them raised in a second, and they can use mp replenishing abilities and can generally power through the stat loss. But A DPS dying is a straight penalty, and too many of those is a guaranteed wipe that often no one can compensate for.