Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

[Myrianda]

I find myself either taking part in or reading these parser discussions quite often. I'm sure many of you have as well so I have to ask... does anyone else notice a considerable gap in the spelling/grammar/punctuation abilities of the two sides?

I'm not saying it reflects a deeper intellectual divide but if you guys want to be taken seriously I feel like there is something to be said for well constructed posts. I know sometimes I just won't even finish reading some of these because they just feel incohearent.

[As an example look no further than the post above this one... interesting to say the least.]

I usually never post on these forums (for good reason, mind you), and having lurked in multiple threads with these types of arguments that seems to be a pretty common trend. The grammatical structure of sentences and misspelling of words on a consistent basis from the 'unique' side of the community is pretty sad, and almost reflects a 3rd to 5th grade level of sentence composition. I almost as feel these people are trolling with misspelled words on purpose to sound like incoherent trolls, but they seem to be serious...which is sad in itself. It makes it seem like the people who hate common MMO-practice features like a parser or anything that promotes a competitive and skilled playerbase are not playing with a full deck of cards.

You are neglecting key difference. First and foremost, FFXIV is not WoW nor does it boast even a fraction of the equivalent playerbase. The two cannot be directly compared in this regard because you'll inevitably see worse offenders in a game with several times the subscription numbers. It's no different than assuming Balmung or Gilgamesh are terrible servers because you come across more jerks from there than anywhere else. Considering Balmung once had more than triple the players of smaller servers, it's hardly surprising you will see more jerks from Balmung than say, Zalera.

Secondly, WoW focuses almost exclusively on raiding. Therefore, it fosters a stronger competitive environment—a fact made all the more evident with open world PvP. This inevitably attracts a more aggressive element. None of this occurs in FFXIV, thus you will see less people openly abusing parsers because the mindset between each game is different.

Finally, it ultimately comes down to moderation. If players who do abuse parsers are swiftly dealt with, this becomes a non-issue long term. The only way this ever balloons into a serious problem is if SE allowed it to happen. Regardless, their stance is entirely counterproductive to the game's design. As someone mentioned elsewhere, we have a game dedicated almost exclusively to pumping out damage—so much so, even tanks and healers are expected to contribute—yet the game goes out of its way to conceal all that information. Even worse, they waste development time and resources on frivolous pursuits in the name of "improving player skill!" which accomplish nothing, i.e., the tacked on job gauges, when a parser does precisely what they want.

Funny you should mention this, as I just had a discussion with some of my guildmates from WoW about this very same point. The competitive nature of WoW, combined with its massive playerbase promote a very great environment for improving personal skill if one so chooses. This is compounded by the fact that parsers, hundreds of other addons to customize your experience, and a more comprehensive logs database and SIM structure are very prevalent over there.

Then you look at this game, and there really isn't any competitive gameplay in it outside of PvP (That's a joke/discussion for another time). On top of that, this game's inherent mechanics and enrage checks promote (if not force) healers and tanks to push as much dps as humanly possible to kill something in the appropriate time. There isn't anything wrong with that per say, but then as you say they hide relevant information that makes it impossible to actually tell who is good or bad at the game. This is a pretty big failure in the game's design in itself. You can't expect a competitive raiding environment to not have a means of gauging itself, and I think that's what the OP, and others like them, seem to honestly forget.

Sorry for the long-winded response, but I definitely agree that you can't make a direct comparison of the two games. There however needs to be better tools implemented into this game to gauge inherent player skill. People can call that elitist all they want, but not everyone is made for end-game raiding, just look at WoW Mythic raids or Mythic+ Dungeons for an example. People seriously need to understand you can't create a 'super-hugbox-everyone-is-bestest-friends' environment and mesh that with harder raid content where numbers and results matter.

[Shurrikhan]

You are neglecting key difference. First and foremost, FFXIV is not WoW nor does it boast even a fraction of the equivalent playerbase. The two cannot be directly compared in this regard because you'll inevitably see worse offenders in a game with several times the subscription numbers. It's no different than assuming Balmung or Gilgamesh are terrible servers because you come across more jerks from there than anywhere else. Considering Balmung once had more than triple the players of smaller servers, it's hardly surprising you will see more jerks from Balmung than say, Zalera.

Secondly, WoW focuses almost exclusively on raiding. Therefore, it fosters a stronger competitive environment—a fact made all the more evident with open world PvP. This inevitably attracts a more aggressive element. None of this occurs in FFXIV, thus you will see less people openly abusing parsers because the mindset between each game is different.

Finally, it ultimately comes down to moderation. If players who do abuse parsers are swiftly dealt with, this becomes a non-issue long term. The only way this ever balloons into a serious problem is if SE allowed it to happen. Regardless, their stance is entirely counterproductive to the game's design. As someone mentioned elsewhere, we have a game dedicated almost exclusively to pumping out damage—so much so, even tanks and healers are expected to contribute—yet the game goes out of its way to conceal all that information. Even worse, they waste development time and resources on frivolous pursuits in the name of "improving player skill!" which accomplish nothing, i.e., the tacked on job gauges, when a parser does precisely what they want.

While I am in agreement with almost everything you've said in this thread... Two things:

1. How is WoW any more focused on raiding than XIV is? Both have about the same amount of side-content, the only real difference being that apart from "pet battles" (analogous to our TT more than our LotV), the side content still uses the same main gameplay systems. If anything, there tends to be more actually useful things one can do (e.g. to improve their character) outside of raiding in WoW than XIV... PvP also sees hugely more focus there, and yet I've never seen any WoW PvPer somehow consider Battlegrounds, PvP Raids, Brawls, or Arenas as part of "raiding".

2. Why should parsers be uniquely saddled with a moderation check when the harassment is merely changing mediums, rather than being newly produced? That's like saying these newfangled Blu-Rays should be uniquely checked for pirating just because they're a distinct medium from DVDs... It's simply harassment. If whether the claims made are actually evidenced by fact or not matters, then it's not yet harassment, but merely criticism. Until people are going out of their way to harass someone, to demean their reputation, or are putting someone down without any reasonable potential to incite improvement, we're not yet at harassment. And once they are doing those things, the source is utterly irrelevant.

I strongly suspect that the frequency of actual harassment over poor performance would decrease with ubiquitous parser usage. People are far more assertive of suspicions than they are of fact, especially when acting in an officious manner. The more doubt possible, the more heavy-handedness is applied to compensate. I've had another DPS harass me (as in constant spam tells after the dungeon until I blocked them) for my openers despite clearing trash mobs and bosses nearly as quickly when he was "brb; bio" for 4 minutes straight. I thought he was just trolling at first. Sadly not. Over the last four years, I have seen (what was tending towards, but, unless the confrontation extended beyond the relevant content, never actually reached) harassment in DF groups only a handful of times, and in all but one case it was by the lowest performing player. (The only exception was a "speedrun Warrior" who kept imploding when he technically should have lived if he'd had an experience healer, but that's still iffy in terms of practical performance, given that the healer stated quite clearly that she only just swapped from SMN to SCH....)

I may have provoked some of that spam by mentioning, just the once, that Spread Shot works well on multiple targets, but that's about where I draw the line. Asking, "Hey, DRG, could we start clearing up these packs a bit quicker?" (as he fails to AoE in a 5+ mob pull) is not. And while it may be easier for the tank to notice what's going wrong and why when a parser is available, there is very, very little difference to the confrontations, if any, that ensue.

so having a public parser means overhauling GM policy and I am sure SE does not want all that extra work, time, and money investment. Much easier to just say no parsers.

How? The ToA says "no third party tools". This would not be that. And the GM policy is likely already immured in further unwritten guidelines; setting aside the question of "could this finding be made only through the use of a parser" would only make their job easier and their policies simpler.

Then you look at this game, and there really isn't any competitive gameplay in it outside of PvP (That's a joke/discussion for another time). On top of that, this game's inherent mechanics and enrage checks promote (if not force) healers and tanks to push as much dps as humanly possible to kill something in the appropriate time. There isn't anything wrong with that per say, but then as you say they hide relevant information that makes it impossible to actually tell who is good or bad at the game. This is a pretty big failure in the game's design in itself. You can't expect a competitive raiding environment to not have a means of gauging itself, and I think that's what the OP, and others like them, seem to honestly forget.

So, world firsts and clear progress are competitive in WoW but not in XIV? How does that work?

Healers are also just as expected to deal damage during healing downtime in WoW as here, multiple specs even needing to weave it in in order to regenerate resources or accelerate utilities. One healer spec even heals solely through DPS. That only deepened in recent years with the removal of MP costs from most basic offensive spells, as that was the only limiting constraint leading to "full sustain" (to intentionally and tactically... do nothing) downtime previously.

[MoroMurasaki]

I find it funny that people seem to think if SE added an ingame parser or even just lifted the weird semi-ban on ACT that they would also be greenlighting harrassment.

Those are two different things. The only difference from the perspective of someone reporting harrassment is that they would actually have to be harrassed in order to complain. Right now if I get an incompetent player in PF I have to silently kick them or lie about 'reforming' where as with talk of parsers opened up I could say something like "Hey, you've got some clear holes in your rotation since you're sitting significantly below average despite your ilvl. Check out a guide and maybe hit the dummy for a bit, thanks for coming though."

Neither of those things is harrassment but right now one of them (the one that helps the underperformer less to boot) is okay while the other (more helpful) one would get me a visit from a GM.

[Vstarstruck]

How? The ToA says "no third party tools". This would not be that. And the GM policy is likely already immured in further unwritten guidelines; setting aside the question of "could this finding be made only through the use of a parser" would only make their job easier and their policies simpler.

I just want to chime on this second part of your post for a very important mention, which shows it's the player, not the parser.

Did the person in this example use a parser? Ya. Was he being rude and toxic with it? Ya. But is it because a parser exists? No. He could have easily harassed over anything else. Could have harassed them for their glam, or their chosen race, or maybe that they're new and falling behind. None of those are related to parsing, but in this same example, you'd of course punish the player for harassment. So why would it be different if there's a parser? Guy is toxic with it? Punish them. Harassing a player for numbers and harassing them for being new would have the same effect, only people act like putting in numbers excuses the first one.

You are missing the point, I am not defending SE at all. I was giving you something to think about on WHY SE does not want parses. You are missing my point completely. Punishing them does not reverse or do anything to the victim. Some most likely unsub over it feeling the community is too toxic for them. I get the feeling SE wants to put the least amount of money in this game as possible while getting most they can get out of it. If this is the case, it is simpler, cheaper, say no parses.

Since they can't reimburse or try to reinsure something will be done, SE prob fears it will make some people just quit and unsub. givin some of the threads here on the MSQ stuff, I wouldn't be shocked if some did unsub over stuff like this. So to help prevent that, "no parses " is easier.

[Myrianda]

So, world firsts and clear progress are competitive in WoW but not in XIV? How does that work?

Healers are also just as expected to deal damage during healing downtime in WoW as here, multiple specs even needing to weave it in in order to regenerate resources or accelerate utilities. One healer spec even heals solely through DPS. That only deepened in recent years with the removal of MP costs from most basic offensive spells, as that was the only limiting constraint leading to "full sustain" (to intentionally and tactically... do nothing) downtime previously.

I never said one wasn't competitive and the other is, just that there really isn't much of a competitive environment in this game to begin with. But in WoW you at least have tournaments and things that go beyond raiding to support a competitive environment like Mythic+ and raid tournaments.

Also, you've obviously not raided in WoW before if you think healers do any 'real' dps. Holy paladins use judgement to generate a haste buff and a few skills for generating more class resource, Mistweaver monks have several skills to generate more chi, and discipline priests can smite and holy fire to generate healing on others while providing some dps. Compare them to an 'actual' dps and they make up less than 10% of an actual dps in contribution. Whereas here we have healers doing about 50% of typical dps while healing. Again, I never said anything was wrong with that notion, and the game uses to different types of gameplay in the same role to ever justify comparing the two.

[Jijifli]

You are missing the point, I am not defending SE at all. I was giving you something to think about on WHY SE does not want parses. You are missing my point completely. Punishing them does not reverse or do anything to the victim. Some most likely unsub over it feeling the community is too toxic for them. I get the feeling SE wants to put the least amount of money in this game as possible while getting most they can get out of it. If this is the case, it is simpler, cheaper, say no parses

I didn't say you were defending square. I was saying that I can be just as hostile to a player in the same scenario without mentioning dps numbers. If I REALLY wanted to, I could just keep making alts and harassing them after the dungeon, telling them nasty messages that'll make them quit. I don't need a third party software to do that. In fact, Square put in the information needed to make that easier. So we're removing contacts, right?

[Vstarstruck]

I didn't say you were defending square. I was saying that I can be just as hostile to a player in the same scenario without mentioning dps numbers. If I REALLY wanted to, I could just keep making alts and harassing them after the dungeon, telling them nasty messages that'll make them quit. I don't need a third party software to do that. In fact, Square put in the information needed to make that easier. So we're removing contacts, right?

That is a good way get you banned from the game. Also it is a fallacy to say they would been insulting over something else if no parser exists. Why are you even talking about this? in the big scope of things, this conversation has no point.

[SaitoHikari]

Come to think of it, SE already had a solution to all this implemented, it was just done in a way that has completely gutted its purpose.

The Duty Recorder. It allows one to record their performance, and while it still keeps exact numbers hidden, it's better than a parser in the visual aspect to see exactly how mechanics fail. Problem is, it only works in pre-formed parties, and only if everyone in the party agrees to consent to the recording. As it is now, it would ironically only see actual use among raiders, and even then most raiders already have a better tool outside of the game itself. And it provides in-game proof for harassment without any chance of being edited (as opposed to screenshots/videos) should any harassment arise, assuming it also records chat logs! This is especially considering that it appears the videos are stored server-side, what with there being a limit on how many records can exist at once per character.

Lift those restrictions, and the people that need it the most will actually be able to use it.

[Vstarstruck]

Come to think of it, SE already had a solution to all this implemented, it was just done in a way that has completely gutted its purpose.

The Duty Recorder. It allows one to record their performance, and while it still keeps exact numbers hidden, it's better than a parser in the visual aspect to see exactly how mechanics fail. Problem is, it only works in pre-formed parties, and only if everyone in the party agrees to consent to the recording. As it is now, it would ironically only see actual use among raiders, and even then most raiders already have a better tool outside of the game itself. And it provides in-game proof for harassment without any chance of being edited (as opposed to screenshots/videos) should any harassment arise, assuming it also records chat logs! This is especially considering that it appears the videos are stored server-side, what with there being a limit on how many records can exist at once per character.

Lift those restrictions, and the people that need it the most will actually be able to use it.

I couldn't even figure out how to make it work. I did a pre-formed party trying to do a trial and did the quest and still wouldn't do anything? The duty recorder is defiantly badly implemented.

[Jijifli]

That is a good way get you banned from the game. Also it is a fallacy to say they would been insulting over something else if no parser exists. Why are you even talking about this? in the big scope of things, this conversation has no point.

Apparently agreeing that parsers aren't the cause of toxicity by showing a similar example to your example, to why Square won't change their footing on it, has no point.

But since you wanna mention it, yes, both get you banned. I've actually been verbally harassed, even out of a dungeon, for greeding tank gloves in HW in a dungeon. But sorry for trying to help...