Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

[MoroMurasaki]

the players are fine. raiders tend to define "detrimental" as stuff that never causes a wipe and only slows things down moderately. The thing where its an issue is genuinely hard content, and the mistakes are expected.

Detrimental play doesn't always cause a wipe, everything is circumstantial.

I play BRD well enough to get through o5s and o6s if I have exemplary players with me but in a group of players putting out comperable damage to me (so probably not very good dps, I'm no pro BRD) we would likely be hitting enrage.

In both of those situations I would be doing the same dps but in one we clear and one we wipe - would you say my play is only sub-par when it results in a wipe? Do I basically get to ride the coattails of my party because I lucked into a decent PF group? I don't understand how you define detrimental.

[Ultima]

Omg you ppl are unbelievable! You take a sentence and use it against others...

I never said I want to create my own rotations and also said that if you can’t have a good DPS YOU DON’T JOIN!!

Following someone theory, only player that spend hours to create rotations are 1st class player and nobody else. All other are just following.

Still there is no difference AT ALL if someone deal 5 or 6k for the outcome of the party !! For BIS the same concept guys, with BIS you can reach 100% but if you don’t but are competent you can still deal a huge DPS abs carry your team, the player matter more than the gear!!

My point is how greedibg for a better log make ppl being selfish and damage other in the group, if you don’t care about logs but okay fir fun and achievements you don’t want other to ruin your fun or setting you back for their personal gain.

Woah there! Are you saying that 5k and 6k are the same thing? Who taught you math, Common Core? Wew! The guy with the biggest numbers is the guy who is still alive, doing mechanics, and incredibly well-geared. The guy who meets this criteria can carry an inferior (in one of those categories) player. Thus... BiS.

[RiyahArp]

Detrimental play doesn't always cause a wipe, everything is circumstantial.

...when you need to spend four hours farming a pop item for one chance at savage, and then you have people who wipe you? Detrimental. This? Wow, you lost thirty minutes and need to reform. Did you lose a level because you kept wiping in expert roulette, or does your tank have to quit because he died so much he literally can't afford the repair fees, or you lose millions of gil in consummables?

A lot of this stuff in the end is minor inconveniences compared to what it could be. You have people complaining people actually die in hard content or take 5-7 min longer in a roulette due to low dps. People clear content with 8 tanks on a whim. Raiders literally ad to made their own informal difficulty spike by fflogs rankings, because content in general can be completed relatively quickly, for its difficulty. I kind of wish sometimes they would give you all a taste of what really detrimental consequences would be some time, you'd probably sweat some of what people do here a lot less.

[MoroMurasaki]

...when you need to spend four hours farming a pop item for one chance at savage, and then you have people who wipe you? Detrimental. This? Wow, you lost thirty minutes and need to reform. Did you lose a level because you kept wiping in expert roulette, or does your tank have to quit because he died so much he literally can't afford the repair fees, or you lose millions of gil in consummables?

So if the problems caused by someone's poor play aren't literally insurmountable then they don't matter.

Cool, awesome, glad we got any semblence of logic, reason or common sense out the window early on.

[HyoMinPark]

I never said I want to create my own rotations

You may not have said specifically that you wanted to, but you did say:

The concept of Logs and BIS bother me and it took from me all the fun from playing DPS, What you top dps do? just blindly follow SOMEONE ELSE ROTATION and do pew pew pew! wow what an achievement do like puppets what other told you to do.
FYI elitist player don't need someone to tell you how to play but the create and optimize their own rotation with their skills.

The bolded sentence carries the insinuation that you think people can just throw together any ol' rotation. That's not the case. Jobs have an optimal rotation, and anything else is sub-optimal.

and also said that if you can’t have a good DPS YOU DON’T JOIN!!

You also said that you only want to do the bare minimum. In Savage, the bare minimum isn't good DPS; it's below average DPS. Average DPS for every job in 360+ is roughly 5,000. If you can't pull that, you aren't performing averagely for content that actually requires above average play. Less than 3,000 DPS on BRD is NOT GOOD DPS. Less than 3,000 DPS on a SMN is NOT GOOD DPS. That is way below average for both jobs.

Following someone theory, only player that spend hours to create rotations are 1st class player and nobody else. All other are just following.

Because the rotations the theorycrafters come up with are THE OPTIMAL ROTATION. THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION. Or, if there is, there is only a slight variation. A good example is Miyuri's BRD opener versus the one cited in Aileena's massive BRD guide - Aileena swaps the placement of Empyreal Arrow and Battle Voice, and opts for only 4 Heavy Shots during the Refulgent Arrow fishing window instead of 5. Both openers are still really good, and both are optimal. An opener that deviates from either of those is generally not optimal.

Why would you not do a standard opener - one that has been carefully designed to be as optimal as possible - for a sub-optimal one? People can be "1st class players" and not be the number-crunchers. For you to think otherwise is silly.

Still there is no difference AT ALL if someone deal 5 or 6k for the outcome of the party !!

Except there is - higher DPS from everyone in the party means a shorter/faster kill time, which higher DPS on average and better logs for everyone. Plus, if someone is dealing average or above average damage, the rest of the party isn't having to pick up the slack of a sub-optimal player. It's a win-win. The flip-side is someone performing sub-optimally, and the rest of the party has to make up the difference or carry said sub-optimal player to victory. Which, in that case, the sub-optimal player just mooched off of the better players. How is that fair to the better players? Do you think players would be able to clear V5S or any of the current-tier Savage if they were performing at 3k or less?


If you're concerned with people misunderstanding you, try typing more clearly.

[Hakuro89]

Omg you ppl are unbelievable! You take a sentence and use it against others...

blah blah bloo blub

Lemme shoot some holes in your boat.
First and foremost, not a single word out of you in this entire thread wasn't purely theoretical. You've no actual examples for anything. You're trying to slay a dragon that doesn't exist with a pretend sword.
You're looking at the worst possible scenarios that could potentially occur with a parser in play. Nobody's going to harass you or "treat you like shit" for not pulling purple/orange numbers. Nobody randomly harasses anyone like that, mostly because if they're smart enough to reach that kind of skill level to talk down FROM those shiny numbers, they'd know better than to cross that line every parse user should know not to cross.

At the end of the day, nobody's going to "discriminate against you" for doing 5k DPS or 6k DPS (though the latter will have them respecting you more, BECAUSE you went that extra mile). I'm not going to care enough to insult you for having low DPS, but at the same time, I, like everyone else, reserve the right to opt not to bring you into my weekly clear group if you're going to drastically underperform, hold the group back, not care enough to try, and generally be a liability in both attitude and aptitude.

[RiyahArp]

So if the problems caused by someone's poor play aren't literally insurmountable then they don't matter.

Cool, awesome, glad we got any semblence of logic, reason or common sense out the window early on.

What problems? You fail a run 8 minutes in, a run that doesn't have any prerequisites or any real cost to failing. They fail three times, oh well, disband, try again. People get their clears of content within weeks, to the point they are complaining about not having anything to do and logging from the game till the next patch. The people complain about people ranking low on essentially how fast you can clear (DPS rankings.)

I had more consequences from poor play leveling in ffxi at 20 than there are in this game. Its something to keep in mind with how much people compain about things here. It probably took longer to camp o kotes, a level 35 bis gear for mnk and nin, than it takes many savage raiders to complete an entire tier. I mean, we should be thankful a lot more the game is so friendly, and you have a wide skill band that you can still clear things, not endlessly griping about carries and where you parse.

[JohnSeal]

Ms HYO again and others you change the meaning of what I say!

I would never say that I want to do the bare minimum I said that there a minimum DPS required set by THE GAME. If you match it then you are free to join a group, if you can exceed it good for you, still as I said I got bored of DPSing lately so It’s not really my case...

I meant that between deal 5500,5800 or 6000k there is not a great difference and WEEKLY CLEARVARE NOT THE PLACE TO PUSH OVER YOUR LIMITS. People who want to push and think about their own parse can do it with LOGS RUN groups. Normal ppl want to have fun with nice ppl and Team players, getting new gear in weekly clears.

Underperforming is bad of course but still you ppl are CHANGING TOPIC!! We talk about discrimination of toxic players againist others with thei attitude mate

[Ultima]

Ms HYO again and others you change the meaning of what I say!

I would never say that I want to do the bare minimum I said that there a minimum DPS required set by THE GAME. If you match it then you are free to join a group, if you can exceed it good for you, still as I said I got bored of DPSing lately so It’s not really my case...

I meant that between deal 5500,5800 or 6000k there is not a great difference and WEEKLY CLEARVARE NOT THE PLACE TO PUSH OVER YOUR LIMITS. People who want to push and think about their own parse can do it with LOGS RUN groups. Normal ppl want to have fun with nice ppl and Team players, getting new gear in weekly clears.

Underperforming is bad of course but still you ppl are CHANGING TOPIC!! We talk about discrimination of toxic players againist others with thei attitude mate

The game didn't set anything and the game isn't grouping with you, the players set the minimum DPS.


Also, if 4 dps are doing 5.5k instead of 6k that means you've lost a potential 2k DPS. That's a lotta damage!

There is no such thing as toxic players discriminating against others, but if you want to start it - you're the first one I've met who is discriminating against others with their attitude.

[HyoMinPark]

Ms HYO again and others you change the meaning of what I say!

I would never say that I want to do the bare minimum I said that there a minimum DPS required set by THE GAME. If you match it then you are free to join a group, if you can exceed it good for you, still as I said I got bored of DPSing lately so It’s not really my case...

The average DPS for a 360+ DPS is, again, roughly 5,000. Can you reach that? If yes, then you have reached the requirement for Savage. If no, then you have not. Go practice more, or don't do the content.

Since you like to play healers, most groups are going to want healers with near 100% uptime - Always Be Casting. Be it heals or DPS spells. Don't stand around idle; speaking personally, nothing grinds my gears more than healers who stand around and only press 1 button every 30 seconds. Everyone else is expected to be pressing buttons 100% of the time; healers are no exception. I personally don't see how healers do it, to be honest. I'd be bored out of my mind.

I meant that between deal 5500,5800 or 6000k there is not a great difference and WEEKLY CLEARVARE NOT THE PLACE TO PUSH OVER YOUR LIMITS. People who want to push and think about their own parse can do it with LOGS RUN groups. Normal ppl want to have fun with nice ppl and Team players, getting new gear in weekly clears.

"Normal people" doing their weeklies also don't want to have to deal with sub-3k DPS. I'll just repeat my advice to you earlier in the thread - if you don't want to deal with the box of chocolates that is PF, then make your own parties with people you know. Or make a "bare minimum DPS required" party for Savage, and have all the fun you want in there. But don't join other parties that may be expecting AVERAGE play, and then complain when they boot you for not performing on an AVERAGE level.