Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

[MaloraYuki]

Refer to this
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._bad_news_for/


As much as I'd love to see Yoshi-P deliberately break all the tools, It would take elliptic-curve cryptography to prevent the FFXIV ACT Plugin from being able to record that data in the first place (as opposed to the fixed key to access the lobby). Yet it's likely they'd just use an off-the-shelf crypto, which would just add more latency and increase the minimum CPU requirements. The only reason it works at all is because the existing plugin only needs to use zlib, and not for very much.

The irony is, Yoshi-P is clearly aware of the kinds of cheating going on, and hasn't cracked down on players doing it, which ends up giving the impression that nobody will ever be punished for ANY kind of automated play.

The very definition of cheating is "to violate rules or regulations"

Don’t like how yoshida runs his game don’t play pretty simple, same with the OP have an issue with the community don’t be in it. All you’ve done is cry about how things don’t go your way get over it.

[MoroMurasaki]

The problem is the toxic player classify and discriminate others by the colour of their logs and that is not fair guys! You can join and clear a raid if your reach the MINIMUM dps required and nobody is allowed to treat you bad if your logs are grey! If your log is grey you still can have fun and dont damage anyone but if you attitude is [bleep] you do!!!

Let's say someone squeaks by in an o5s clear doing 3k dps on SMN but they beat enrage by the skin of their teeth because one if the dps in their group was exemplary - just hypothetically, of course - the group has reached the 'minimum dps required' and yet if the entire group was playing at the level of that SMN they would all have died to enrage.

There is no reason to treat people poorly because of their logs but if someone's poor performance is going to mean hitting enrage it is certainly fair to kick them and seek out someone who can perform at the required level.

Anyway I asked a question few times but nobody got attributes enough to reply to that: If you have orange logs do you think to be a better player than ppl who don’t? if the answer is yes means you are DISCRIMINATING!
Nobody will reply because you know that by replying: Yes I am better! you would give me automatically right.
Still I think logs can classify DPSs by their results but not healers or tanks lol

And if I said someone got the brain of a cow, I didn’t do names and I won’t so why you feel offended if you are not a cow ?!

Having orange logs doesn't necessarily mean one person is better than another because a lot goes into a single run. A player who is consistantly getting purple/orange parses is likely more skilled than someone who is consistantly grey though, that's just a fact.

[HyoMinPark]

To reply to MS HYO: many ppl offended me! mine was a post to suggest a change in the community but most of you are full of hathred !

Blatantly disagreeing with the things you have written =/= "being full of hatred". I disagree with people who try to dictate how I should have fun, much like you do. But your definition of "fun" takes the fun out of this game for many different people. Not everyone wants to play the way that you do.

BIS I saw for SCH gives you 2500 crit, 142ish piety and 124ish DET and I PERSONALLY DONT LIKE IT! I don't need so much Piety and I prefer to have more DET. You can have the full BIS and not be good or not have it and do great is the player that matter.

Last I checked, there are many different kinds of BiS for all three healers. The reason Crit is so valued on SCH is because more Crit = more chances at getting a crit-Adlo. Spread that to the party via Deployment Tactics, and watch as they take virtually no damage from heavy raid-wide AOEs. Piety is not needed for any healer, and most will meld probably want to meld Determination where they cannot meld Crit because Spell Speed and Piety are garbage-tier stats. However, so many piece of gear have both on them, so you have to deal with what you have. The SCH BiS you're referencing probably takes any piece of gear with Crit on it because, again, that is what is most heavily valued for the job.

The concept of Logs and BIS bother me and it took from me all the fun from playing DPS, What you top dps do? just blindly follow SOMEONE ELSE ROTATION and do pew pew pew! wow what an achievement do like puppets what other told you to do.
FYI elitist player don't need someone to tell you how to play but the create and optimize their own rotation with their skills.

This game isn't designed to "create your own rotation". There is an optimal way to play a certain job - i.e., an optimal rotation - and any other way is generally sub-optimal. You don't roll BRD and alternate between Heavy Shot and Straight Shot, or spam one of your DoTs, or Iron Jaws without both DoTs on a target. You don't randomly use your songs in whatever order you please - there is an optimal order for them.

Still guy you are outside of topic, the point still is why discriminate ppl if they dont have purple/orange logs on PF? if the damage is SUFFICIENT everybody can play, develop new classes without you judging them!!! if you hit the grey line you dont damage anyone is a matter of fact but toxic ppl do for entires parties!!

Grey percentiles usually means that the damage ISN'T sufficient. Hence why the percentile is so low compared to higher percentiles. Of course, there are other factors to consider such as gear, deaths, party comp, and the like. But if you are wearing i360+ gear with an i360+ weapon, and you still cannot manage 5k DPS (remember, that is average for a DPS job), then you have a serious problem, and do not belong in Savage.

People that perform sub-optimally are damaging others - because they're basically requiring the rest of the party to pick up the slack and carry their dead weight to a clear.

Anyway I asked a question few times but nobody got attributes enough to reply to that: If you have orange logs do you think to be a better player than ppl who don’t? if the answer is yes means you are DISCRIMINATING!
Nobody will reply because you know that by replying: Yes I am better! you would give me automatically right.

It depends on why the logs are why they are. Any raider worth their salt will know to comb through a log and see why the damage values are so low. If they see a geared DPS with zero deaths doing only 3k worth of damage in V6S, then there is a huge problem with that player. Not wanting to have to carry someone who cannot even perform at an average level in content that actually demands competency is not discrimination.

Still I think logs can classify DPSs by their results but not healers or tanks lol

Wrong. You can easily tell who good and bad tanks and healers are by their logs just as much as you can DPS if you know where to look.

[KaivaC]

To JohnSeal, oh don't you worry, I will indeed reply. Because I'm nice like that

[SaitoHikari]

WoW has DBM that informs you of upcoming mechanics in X seconds and the like, so you can't call that cheating because Blizzard developed around there being such addons instead of banning or breaking them.

To be fair, that doesn't mean that the same should be allowed in this game. There's a reason people consider the WoW community to be a lost cause, and I imagine many FFXIV players are largely refugees from other MMOs including WoW. I also imagine that the WoW devs' stance on those add-ons is one of their biggest regrets, because the situation there is now so far gone that touching it at all would alienate the most vocal chunk of their remaining playerbase. It's likely the reason why the FFXIV staff does not want to take any hardline stance for or against parsing - whatever they do with such a topic would lead to irreversible consequences.

(It's worth mentioning that any mention of parsing at all used to result in permanent bans from these forums. Many guide writers got nailed at the start of HW just for showing screenshots or recording videos with parsers running in the background. It would appear that has quietly changed as of late, either because of a change in moderation staff, or someone higher-up noticed what was happening/decided it really shouldn't be ban-worthy and told the moderation staff to cut it out - especially since all the world first raiders that the developers and a significant chunk of the playerbase/observers who have yet to play FFXIV are watching streams of all have them running in the background anyway.)

I should note that the FFXIV community's tolerance to dev missteps ranks among the highest of all of the MMOs I've played regardless, and it's likely because our concerns at the end of the day are small compared to the concerns that players of other MMOs have towards said other MMOs.

Even so, there's a Grand Canyon-sized valley between 'parsing' and 'using packet data to prepare for mechanics before they visually appear on screen'.

[JohnSeal]

You guys are making extreme examples of SMN with 3k DPS that is almost impossible! Or which bard play just with few skills or using heavy shot over and over again? This are cases that you see 1 in 500 players. I repeat my concept: you train yourself a lot and master your class before to join savage content! If you can’t kill the dummy in SSS you don’t sabotage others party but if you reach THE MINIMUM REQUIRED (I think v1 for SMN is 4400ish I presume) If you want properly join she healers and tanks by their parses you can but need to study accurately the parses! You check uptime,death,ppl mistakes,dots uptime,use of roles and AT LAST DMG!
If a PLD doesn 3/4K dps bit doesn’t cover,use divine veil,interventions on Mt,Reprisal when required mean is still a bad tank to me! The DPS itself is secondary to this things I just listed.

Still the problem more than competency is attitude! I mean I made real life examples about healers refusing to heal because want a better parce or DPS making idiotic mistakes..

[HyoMinPark]

You guys are making extreme examples of SMN with 3k DPS that is almost impossible! Or which bard play just with few skills or using heavy shot over and over again? This are cases that you see 1 in 500 players.

I suggest you go read the Tales of the Duty Finder thread if you think these things are rare. Or just look over some of the gray percentile logs that SMNs and BRDs have. I don't know how long you've been playing, but I've been playing since Nov 2015, and I've seen just about everything in DF and PF - the good, the bad, and the very ugly.

[KaivaC]

Oh, where to begin. By the way, JOHN, thank you for at least not using a wall of text. It makes things much easier to digest. Now, about your post...

The concept of Logs and BIS bother me and it took from me all the fun from playing DPS

So don't be a DPS then, duh! Your gear has a direct effect on your stats, so if you don't like it, don't use a DPS. Problem solved. Moving onto the next complaint...

What you top dps do? just blindly follow SOMEONE ELSE ROTATION and do pew pew pew! wow what an achievement do like puppets what other told you to do.

You know, there is a thing called optimization. If you want to be able to perform at a level that maximizes the potential of a job, then yes, there are rotations that theorycrafters have spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours on to figure out. I can assure you, learning these rotations are not that easy on some jobs - partly due to muscle memory. But hey, by all means, go on and gimp your other party mates if you don't want to see what others have figured out is the most optimal rotation (actually, rotations, because The Balance has a tendency to showcase around 3 rotations per job generally). Go ahead and be that Monk that ALWAYS use Tornado Kick when it's up, and always uses Brotherhood separately from Riddle of Fire, thus missing out on a whole lot of damage. Be that Bard that never uses Foe's and doesn't rotate their songs. Be that Dragoon that never refreshes Heavy Thrust, or uses the Chaos Thrust combo exclusively because it's flashy, or uses all three jumps immediately. Feel free to use Red Mage and never uses the Impact proc when it's up.

FYI elitist player don't need someone to tell you how to play but the create and optimize their own rotation with their skills.

Oh yeah, that will go over real well. Go ahead and just make up your own rotation, and miss out on a whole bunch of potency. Feel free to be that 2k player. Be all that you can be, as the old US Army slogan goes.

Still guy you are outside of topic, the point still is why discriminate ppl if they dont have purple/orange logs on PF? if the damage is SUFFICIENT everybody can play, develop new classes without you judging them!!! if you hit the grey line you dont damage anyone is a matter of fact but toxic ppl do for entires parties!!

Quit using that word. I feel like you read another hot thread and decided it would be good to use it here. It's not. It makes you look like a fool for even using it as much as you have. And ...what? Develop new classes? WTF are you talking about? No seriously, what are you talking about here? I recognize that this is a rant, but it makes zero sense.

Anyway even if many of you don’t agree with me some other ppl do !! if you see online on any forum about ffxiv there are many ppl defining parses and LOGs as CANCERS so I am not alone guys!!

And? Oh noes. Other people disagree with what I'm saying, therefore I should be ashamed to share my opinion anymore. Oh the horrors. The shame! So much shame. Smh, grow up.

Anyway I asked a question few times but nobody got attributes enough to reply to that: If you have orange logs do you think to be a better player than ppl who don’t? if the answer is yes means you are DISCRIMINATING!

Again with this word. Just because you put it in all caps doesn't really mean anything. I can do that too. IGNORANT! That's how I feel this statement is when you use that word.

Nobody will reply because you know that by replying: Yes I am better! you would give me automatically right.

Yeah...no. I want to say that you're delusional when you say this, that your ego needs a huge check - but no, I just think you're a troll who is looking to stoke some flames. Yes, that's what I think! So you know I am automatically right!!! Ah...I messed that up. Hold on...let me try again.

This whole thread reeks of bait. And as you read this, you'll know that I AM AUTOMATICALLY RIGHT!!!

See that? I see you like to troll, so when a troll trolled you, I trolled the troll and then I trolled you. Does any of that make sense? No, but it makes a helluva lot more sense than the drivel you've posted tonight.

If a PLD doesn 3/4K dps bit doesn’t cover,use divine veil,interventions on Mt,Reprisal when required mean is still a bad tank to me! The DPS itself is secondary to this things I just listed.

Ohhohoho, what have we here? Do I spy with mine eyes an elitist here? The plot thickens!

[Ultima]

To be fair, that doesn't mean that the same should be allowed in this game. There's a reason people consider the WoW community to be a lost cause, and I imagine many FFXIV players are largely refugees from other MMOs including WoW. I also imagine that the WoW devs' stance on those add-ons is one of their biggest regrets, because the situation there is now so far gone that touching it at all would alienate the most vocal chunk of their remaining playerbase. It's likely the reason why the FFXIV staff does not want to take any hardline stance for or against parsing - whatever they do with such a topic would lead to irreversible consequences.

(It's worth mentioning that any mention of parsing at all used to result in permanent bans from these forums. Many guide writers got nailed at the start of HW just for showing screenshots or recording videos with parsers running in the background. It would appear that has quietly changed as of late, either because of a change in moderation staff, or someone higher-up noticed what was happening/decided it really shouldn't be ban-worthy and told the moderation staff to cut it out - especially since all the world first raiders that the developers and a significant chunk of the playerbase/observers who have yet to play FFXIV are watching streams of all have them running in the background anyway.)

I should note that the FFXIV community's tolerance to dev missteps ranks among the highest of all of the MMOs I've played regardless, and it's likely because our concerns at the end of the day are small compared to the concerns that players of other MMOs have towards said other MMOs.

Even so, there's a Grand Canyon-sized valley between 'parsing' and 'using packet data to prepare for mechanics before they visually appear on screen'.

From my perspective, the WoW community isn't the problem, the FFXIV community has been worse to me than the WoW community has been in the decade plus I've had exposure to the game. I never had people be so ignorant and refuse to get better at the game like XIVers seem to insist that they should play how they wish. The dev team won't make a hardline stance on anything because they have no idea what to do and that's a problem. A dev team without ideals can accomplish nothing, we didn't get a new tank or healer because they wanted to adjust tank/healer balance and it didn't work. Because they can't decide if Healers should DPS or if they should heal or if tanks should be allowed to leave tank stance while being MT or not - thus the roles are basically Healing DPS and Tanking DPS. You just heal or pop cooldowns then go back to hitting the boss as hard as you can. Thus leading to people arguing about job design because the devs can't even tell us whether or not they intended for WAR to be able to use Deliverance 100% of their time as MT.

The FFXIV community is notoriously tolerant of FFXIV creating the same thing over and over, repeating the same mistakes, and ignoring problems that they themselves created without any input from the players to cause it like: Housing, Job balance, what have you. Our concerns are not "small" by any means, they're identical to those of other games, XIV players are just more tolerant and sometimes tolerance is a bad thing because it means that poor behavior isn't punished, it's instead rewarded.

Even so, Kisai is a fool to compare parsing to packet data, but nobody is arguing that Kisai isn't talking out of the wrong end.

[SaitoHikari]

I still don't get this thread. There's a pretty big disconnect between 'not using your skills/using your skills incorrectly' and 'parsers'. Because people who want a high parse will naturally want to do everything correctly anyway. :/

I kind of wonder if OP lost a bet/ran into someone that outright lied about what parsers actually do and asked them to start a crusade on the forums, because said someone had already been banned from here prior.

From my perspective, the WoW community isn't the problem, the FFXIV community has been worse to me than the WoW community has been in the decade plus I've had exposure to the game. I never had people be so ignorant and refuse to get better at the game like XIVers seem to insist that they should play how they wish. The dev team won't make a hardline stance on anything because they have no idea what to do and that's a problem. A dev team without ideals can accomplish nothing, we didn't get a new tank or healer because they wanted to adjust tank/healer balance and it didn't work.

The FFXIV community is notoriously tolerant of FFXIV creating the same thing over and over, repeating the same mistakes, and ignoring problems that they themselves created without any input from the players to cause it like: Housing, Job balance, what have you. Our concerns are not "small" by any means, they're identical to those of other games, XIV players are just more tolerant and sometimes tolerance is a bad thing because it means that poor behavior isn't punished, it's instead rewarded.

Even so, Kisai is a fool to compare parsing to packet data, but nobody is arguing that Kisai isn't talking out of the wrong end.

I actually am in agreement with this. I haven't seen another community where people will actively defend someone intentionally playing in a way detrimental to the rest of the party. Of course, there does exist context where that is acceptable (early leveling dungeons and the player in question simply doesn't know), but by SB, you'd think people would have a clue.

Hell, there's probably a pretty big disconnect between the JP and the EN communities on that matter too. The JP players probably just look at us and think we're all idiots, and probably think the developers design content the way they do because they think we keep dropping the ball in more ways than one. Our playerbase as a whole hasn't exactly proven that we're actually ready for the changes that we so desperately crave.

(Also if you're reading this Hyo, I'd like to bring your attention back to the Bard thread in the DPS section and hear your two cents on what's there.)