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Thread: The Burn

  1. #11
    Player
    Mieck's Avatar
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    Mieck Corcoczeck
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post

    That... still leaves Mysterious Primal X, summoned during the conquest of Ala Mhigo, unaccounted for though... I think. Ala Mhigo was conquered before Silvertear, that much is certain, and a primal was reportedly summoned in the region as a consequence.

    That's correct, and although I don't have the book to hand to confirm, I think it was at least a couple of years before Gyr Abania was secure and Gaius set sights on Silvertear Lake.


    Edit: I've cross-checked. Conquest of Ala Mhigo is 1557, and the Battle of Silvertear Skies is 1562. A whole 5 years of consolidation.
    (0)
    Last edited by Mieck; 07-20-2018 at 04:51 PM.

  2. #12
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    MicahZerrshia's Avatar
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    Nadja Zielle
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    I am just sad that a new possible zone will be reduced to a simple dungeon just like Xelphatol was.

    It would be incredibly exciting if they surprised us with a new zone mid-expac. Yes it seemed fairly plain in the area we were in already, but that was just small part of the burn so who knows what the rest is like.
    (6)

  3. #13
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    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    If we rule out Othardian primals as a mistaken assumption, we're left with... perhaps the "mysterious primal" that interrupted the post-Ala Mhigo advance, if that wasn't itself referring to Leviathan, Titan, and Garuda in '62.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    That... still leaves Mysterious Primal X, summoned during the conquest of Ala Mhigo, unaccounted for though... I think. Ala Mhigo was conquered before Silvertear, that much is certain, and a primal was reportedly summoned in the region as a consequence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mieck View Post
    That's correct, and although I don't have the book to hand to confirm, I think it was at least a couple of years before Gyr Abania was secure and Gaius set sights on Silvertear Lake.
    As far as I know, the lore book glosses right over this. The sole remaining citation that I recall is the Realm Reborn fansite, which says that the advance was halted by a primal "shortly after" Ala Mhigo was taken. Most modern recaps have the XIVth legion take Ala Mhigo, spend a while securing Ala Mhigo, then off they go to the fated Battle of Silvertear Skies and make a swift retreat from Midgardsormr and suddenly there are primals.

    I would have written it off as poor phrasing years ago if Oda-san and Koji hadn't hinted that there was always something planned to be hiding in that gray area that we just hadn't been told about, and as of 2014 might still show up. However, in 2018 it's possible this was just abandoned and the Truth is what the lore book says.
    (6)
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  4. #14
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    The lorebook "history of the Sixth Astral Era" section (p.38) just says that "not long after Midgardsormr's demise [...] Eorzea's beast tribes started summoning their own gods - the 'primals' - into the corporeal realm".

    The chronology (p.53) doesn't mention any primals prior to Titan, Leviathan and Garuda in 1562. (Small possibility: Nidhogg awoke for a period in 1557 - as referenced in the ARR dragoon quests - which could be mistakenly reported as primal activity. How much do the Garleans know about dragons?)

    The Garlean history section (p.177) says that the campain to capture Doma lasted from 1528-1552, and at some point in this period Solus "first laid eyes upon the ruin wrought by primals - an entire land utterly drained of life."
    (3)

  5. #15
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    LineageRazor's Avatar
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    Lineage Razor
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    Gilgamesh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymoose View Post
    As far as I know, the lore book glosses right over this. The sole remaining citation that I recall is the Realm Reborn fansite, which says that the advance was halted by a primal "shortly after" Ala Mhigo was taken. Most modern recaps have the XIVth legion take Ala Mhigo, spend a while securing Ala Mhigo, then off they go to the fated Battle of Silvertear Skies and make a swift retreat from Midgardsormr and suddenly there are primals.

    I would have written it off as poor phrasing years ago if Oda-san and Koji hadn't hinted that there was always something planned to be hiding in that gray area that we just hadn't been told about, and as of 2014 might still show up. However, in 2018 it's possible this was just abandoned and the Truth is what the lore book says.
    Isn't it likely that this "mysterious Primal that halted the Garlean advance" was Ramuh? It's been a long time, but I thought the whole reason the Sylphlands are overrun by Tempered Sylphs is because they summoned Ramuh a few years back in reaction to Garlean incursions. That would correspond pretty closely with the Ala Mhigan conquest, I think. It also seems appropriate, given that Ramuh is sometimes conflated with Rhalgr - the center of Rhalgr worship is overrun, and Ramuh steps up to bat to put an end to the nonsense!
    (1)

  6. #16
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    Anonymoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LineageRazor View Post
    Isn't it likely that this "mysterious Primal that halted the Garlean advance" was Ramuh?
    It would have been likely...if not for 1.0 Sylphic background lore. The Sylphs were part of the crystal trade throughout Eorzea, and were shocked to see what had happened to the tribes that had succeeded in summoning their primals. The Sylphs' entire position in 1.0 was to try to restore the crystal trade and to never summon their primal (though everyone wondered if they would, if push came to shove, and in the aftermath of the Calamity some did).

    Metal ones are the lesser evil. It is the primals who darken hearts. Primals who poison minds! See the feathered ones. See the scaled ones. All are changed!
    The scaled ones have always been proud, but have always been fair. Respect there was for these ones. Respect there was from these ones. Now, scaled ones respect none but crystals... The feathered ones have always been loud. Squaaawk! Squawawawk! Squeeeaaawk! Always loud. Always made this one laugh. Now, feathered ones only scream “crystaaal.” This one misses squawks...
    These ones are fortunate the scaled ones did not perform a summoning. From the primal comes only flame. Comes only anger. These ones are fortunate the feathered ones did not perform a summoning. From the primal comes only storms. Comes only fury.
    These ones will not summon the primal. The primal reaps more pain than good. That One is best left undisturbed.
    (5)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 07-21-2018 at 06:30 AM.
    "I shall refrain from making any further wild claims until such time as I have evidence."
    – Y'shtola

  7. #17
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
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    This is probably a big misunderstanding - and mistake - on my part.

    When first playing 2.0, I was a SMN/SCH (solo/party), and during the SMN intro quest I inferred this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Y'mhitra
    According to the records we recovered, the summoners of old would perform these rites in a land in which the naturally dominant element matched the aspect of the avatar they wished to call forth. Only in such a place might one sufficiently shift one's aetheric balance in the desired direction.
    The element of fire is especially strong here in the Sagolii Desert─I can think of no land more fitting in which to summon an incarnation of the Lord of the Inferno.
    ... to mean that, due to the proximity to the Amalj'aa dwelling (Zahar'ak), the Sagolii Desert itself was a product of repeated Ifrit summons through the ages. Combined with the knowledge that prior to Silvertear the beast tribes traded their crystals with the Eorzean city-states instead of hoarding them for summoning rituals, that led me to the conclusion that primals were possible to summon beforehand... it just wasn't common, due to both Midgardsormr's seal and the crystal stocks being kept low through trade. The truth is that the latter was seemingly absolute, though, and the latter was unimportant to the state of things.

    (60% of the time, I'm right every time.)

    Anyway, enough of people overindulging my ignorance. With that information, inferences can be made!

    1. The Garleans are not known to have encountered a primal during their conquest prior to Eorzea. Solus saw the Burn, concluded that it must have been the result of eikons (presumably based on information gleaned from Allag), and declared their already-underway conquest of the world justified to stop primals.
    2. Primals were not known to have been summoned during the Sixth Astral Era prior to the Battle of Silvertear Skies, aside from a possible instance during the consolidation of Imperial power in Gyr Abania.

    This means that the Burn is not the result of primal activity and/or that it is older than the Sixth Astral Era.

    If nobody saw the Burn come into existence, that means nobody can say for certain that it's the result of primal activity. If it wasn't possible to summon primals during the Sixth Astral Era prior to Silvertear, the Burn would have to predate that if it was created by primals as it was discovered by the Garleans before that event.

    ... since, for some reason, it was possible to summon in previous Astral Eras (the Third, at least, since that's when the Warring Triad, Odin, and Bahamut were summoned). For every answer, three questions.
    (4)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]TRAUNT!
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  8. #18
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    ObsidianFire's Avatar
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    Kharagal Mierqid
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    The Burn is still a huge unknown. The fact that there's still structures there seems to hint that whatever happened closer to "now" then further from "now". Given that the Empire is around 80 years old... I can buy Solus watching it get destroyed and then for some reason thinking it was due to a primal. Also... It's close enough to Othard for me to wonder how much "influence" Silvertear has on the aether. We've never gotten any confirmation that Silvertear influences all aether everywhere or just Eorzeas...

    So... personal theory (headcanon) time... We know eikons were summoned in the 3rd Astral Era when the Crystal Tower was up, etc. Presumably, whatever blockage was on Silvertear Lake wasn't there at the time. Then the 4th Umbral Calamity causes an earthquake right at Silvertear Lake. The Crystal Tower and the entire Allagan Capital is sunk in a day. I'm wondering if the added mass of all that was what caused the blockage on the aether in Silvertear. In all the eras after that, we never hear of any eikons getting summoned. Then Midgardsomr breaks out of the lake and dislodges the blockage...

    IDK, I find it more plausible that people tried to summon eikons in the wake of the Allagan Era falling and failing, rather then them just never summoning eikons again and never finding out about it...
    (4)
    Last edited by ObsidianFire; 07-21-2018 at 10:42 AM.

  9. #19
    Player
    Cilia's Avatar
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    Trpimir Ratyasch
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    ... I should stop trying to draw absolute conclusions from faulty reasoning and sparse information, and get back to doing what I do best: struggling my way up Heaven-on-High by myself in a vain attempt to get the dodo mount solo.

    The only thing we can say for certain about the Burn is that it's an aether-drained wasteland which, as one would expect from such a region, appears to be a white sand / ash-covered desert. There's not enough information to draw any sort of conclusion as to its origin (the Garleans believe it was created by primal summons, but this is not verified), and too many hypotheticals and contradictions remain to work toward a satisfactory conclusion.
    (2)
    Trpimir Ratyasch's Way Status (7.3 - End)
    [ ]LOST [ ]NOT LOST [X]TRAUNT!
    "There is no hope in stubbornly clinging to the past. It is our duty to face the future and march onward, not retreat inward." -Sovetsky Soyuz, Azur Lane: Snowrealm Peregrination

  10. #20
    Player
    dwarf's Avatar
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    Aki Ronin
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    Famfrit
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    Conjurer Lv 50
    Solus Zos Galvus will be a key character in Burn. His name was mentioned twice in Producer Letter Lives. One is when he was introduced in the main scenario and the second was when they introduced the Burn dungeon. He is the first emperor of the Garlean empire.

    The Square Enix official website introduced Solus Zos Galvus as
    “Garlean forces conquered all the lands of the north and hammered them into a single entity. Galvus then instituted an imperial regime to govern their new territories, conferring upon himself the title of "Emperor."
    The eastern nations were the first to feel the newborn empire's mighty fist. It was during this campaign that the emperor witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by the primals—an experience that led to an imperial mandate for their annihilation.” (Square Enix)

    Reference
    Solus Zos Galvus
    The World of Final Fantasy 14 (Square Enix Official Website Final Fantasy 14)

    Producer Live Letters 45
    (1)
    Last edited by dwarf; 07-24-2018 at 03:03 AM. Reason: Citation added, Refinement with feedback received

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