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  1. #101
    Player
    HyoMinPark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Lavender Beds, Ward 13, Plot 41
    Posts
    7,339
    Character
    Hyomin Park
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 92
    Quote Originally Posted by kikix12 View Post
    snip on mobile.
    The problem with them auto-adding role skills to your hotbar is with the design of, not only the role skills system, but the class/job system.

    You start off in the game as a class, which has access to all 10 slots - thereby they theoretically have access to all 10 role skills. The last slot (and skill) are unlocked in the late 40s (level 48, if I recall correctly); you're never going to take a class beyond level 30 (or you shouldn't anyways). Jobs, the ones you take past level 30, have access to 5 slots (currently); again with the last slot/skill learned in the late 40s.

    5 slots (currently); 10 skills. If auto-adding them were a thing, how does the game determine which skills to auto-add? First 5? Last 5? Middle 5? Random 5? If it auto-adds them all, how does it determine which to equip? First 5? Last 5? Middle 5? Random 5? None at all?

    We all know it was a failed concept, this illusion of "choice" with the role skills system. But that design intent - however much of a failure it may be - is probably why auto-adding isn't a thing. That, and the number of skills learned versus available slots. That's my take on it anyways.
    (2)
    Last edited by HyoMinPark; 07-18-2018 at 05:27 AM.
    Sage | Astrologian | Dancer

    마지막 날 널 찾아가면
    마지막 밤 기억하길

    Hyomin Park#0055

  2. #102
    Player RiyahArp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,471
    Character
    Riyah Arpeggio
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    I don't know about this.

    1. A lot of the skills we don't take are functionally useless. Rescue is heavily dependent on connection and reflexes to even use properly. There's stuff like the warrior's aoe provoke which doesn't make much sense, or things like drain in which they won't really save you or have much use over abilities that use direct damage. The useful abilities that are new tend to be things you can use on others occasionally and effectively like palisade or erase.
    2. Idk because I notice they design a little more around role actions more. Hyo mentions surecast, but surecast is one of the strongest role actions out there. It cancels a tremendous amount of knockback moves, and you notice that bosses often use them a lot more too. I think they tried to design the last boss in rab to make use of rescue for healers, as well.
    3. +5 role actions, +5new action in 5.0 and we can be back to HW complexity. Not a good thing.
    (1)
    Last edited by RiyahArp; 07-18-2018 at 05:39 AM.

  3. #103
    Player
    Lunafreya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    714
    Character
    Ellia Lombardia
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    If I can finally have Largesse, cleric, surecast, swiftcast, and protect PLUS ESUNA all at once I'm all for it. It's a great change and irritating as heck in current game where I always have to leave one good skill out.
    (5)

  4. #104
    Player
    WhiteArchmage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,458
    Character
    Samniel Atkascha
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    Uh... BRD/MCH can't take Diversion. Physical ranged role skills are Refresh, Tactician, Second Wind, Invigorate, Palisade, Peloton, Head Graze, Arm Graze, Leg Graze, and Foot Graze.
    Thanks, I was misremembering; I use Head Graze, Refresh, Second Wind, Palisade and Invigorate (while I know Head Graze is only useful in 7S this tier it's still mostly a pain to switch them out every battle). I DO use Refresh on my opener and then on cooldown (and our WHM still complains for mana on God Kefka, that's mostly on SOME ppl getting careless), but since both melees have Invigorate and I have no aggro problems, Tactician was relegated to the "don't need this" pile; I also don't see myself using Peloton much on BRD since I run dungeons as BLM (just SO much more fun to melt everything) but, hey, if it helps someone... (btw, I also agree Heavy and Bind are pretty much useless in end-game, and PLD has Shield Bash in case a stun is actually useful, not to mention MNK and DRG and even WHM have their own stuns).

    I still stand on the rest of my post about the need for more slots or just let us have them all and we can just discard the useless ones from our hotbars, like RDM already does with Tether and BLM/WHM with Sleep/Repose.
    (0)

  5. #105
    Player
    kikix12's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    953
    Character
    Seraphitia Faro
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    The problem with them auto-adding role skills to your hotbar is with the design of, not only the role skills system, but the class/job system.
    Um...I think you grossly misunderstood me.

    I've been considering the "role actions" a failure since before it even came. When it came, I though I gave it too much credit still. After actually using it for a bit...I came to the conclusion that people at Square probably don't really test stuff like that at all because it never should have made it to the game like that.

    These skills should be part of the classes main kit. That's what I kept saying in this thread, including in the post I assume you're responding to. "Mandatory" skills should be gotten with levels as part of class/job, just like Ruin, Cure, Hard Shot etc. are. I even specifically, explicitly said why it is an issue with the role actions system BECAUSE the skills cannot be auto-added to the hot bars due to it being...well...it.
    (1)

  6. #106
    Player
    Astrelle_hyperion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    115
    Character
    Astrelle Drillemont
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    I'm slightly hopeful that this will mean they can lean more into the interruptable casts next raid tier/extreme. More people will be guaranteed to have their stuns/silence, without having to swap things around. I excited to see what craziness the world firsters get up to with all the other mitigation they'll have to play with (as long as SE gives more physical stuff for Feint to work on). I really want to see some form of a crazy exchange whole pile of adds/boss (ultimatum/voke exchange, like the blue/green snakes in bismark extreme). SE can potentially play around a lot with mechanics in savage as a result of this change. (Would have made more sense in a third ultimate, but ....)
    (0)

  7. #107
    Player
    Adventica6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Lower Jeuno
    Posts
    413
    Character
    Lost Tales
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Only use like 3 of them so this doesn't affect me in the slightest, having more useless abilities doesn't make them useful, it just means there is more of them.
    (0)

  8. #108
    Player
    Sylvina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    1,102
    Character
    Sylvina Eon
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    Button bloat is already out of hand. Stormblood did not nearly enough to address it (aside from pvp). Just having more buttons doesn't make a game challenging it makes it unplayable for those without special hardware for extra easy keybinds. A well designed game can be fun and challenging with less than 14 skills.
    (3)

  9. #109
    Player
    Fredco191's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Within your device
    Posts
    1,654
    Character
    Viglundur Krummason
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Meh. I don’t mind.


    ...yet.
    (0)

  10. #110
    Player
    Zsolen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Tailfeather
    Posts
    818
    Character
    Zanelle Solainteau
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    While still nice to have, those role actions were nicer to have during the HW casting days. They were a DPS gain. Even blank was beneficial for DPS, if used correctly. Right now, it does add to the bloat, and it is hardest to remove bloat from MCH. Which leads me to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvina View Post
    Button bloat is already out of hand. Stormblood did not nearly enough to address it (aside from pvp). Just having more buttons doesn't make a game challenging it makes it unplayable for those without special hardware for extra easy keybinds. A well designed game can be fun and challenging with less than 14 skills.
    They can't resolve that w/o nerfing MCH. It isn't currently a 123 class.
    (0)

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