Gender Bias in Character Creation

[Duskane]

The Dead or Alive series are rated M/PEGI16, and they have jiggle physics.

Mario odyssey has jiggle physics and its rated E for everyone

[BluntGamerChick]

Icesis comes off as one of those millennials who think "Everything is Sexist. Everything is Racist. Everything is Homophobic," and they have to "point it all out." That, or they just have a lot of time on their hands. I don't see a lot, if any, logic behind this argument. If a woman's breasts = a man's crotch, what does that make a woman's crotch? Is that equal to anything? I don't see any requests to increase the size of the female characters' mons pubis, yet she wants to advocate increasing the male characters' groin? Sounds quite sexist to me, especially, since she's the one objectifying men's physical attributes.

LMAO! You think I'm a Millennial! OMG I'm flattered. I do look rather good for my age but no dear, I'm not one of those whiny kids who have created a society of cry babies who need to over analyze and compartmentalize every aspect of life I'm not some silly label like Gender fluid, Non Binary, Hispanic vs Latino, African american, blah blah blah blah. No dear. In fact I've been playing MMO's since the first MMO called Ever Quest. Look it up. It was the first real MMORPG which preceded World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy 14 and every other MMO that exists today. My argument is that if we are going to have equality in the sexulaized portions of the male and female body, the beasts being the obvious for women and a mans package the most obvious for men. then we need to have some consistency. Why include a slider for a women's breasts rather then just have one fixed size as they do it on WOW, not that they don't sexualize with with the bouncing effect LOL, if you not going to do the same for the male. It is one sided. And while Musculature is also an obviously male attribute is not as equally sexist as the crotch would be to parallel the breasts.

[Magic-Mal]

We got "Race Problems" in character creation and "Gender Bias" in character creation both as top threads. We're on a roll guys.

[BluntGamerChick]

Uh... I can only speak for myself but the first thing I notice isn't their crotches. It's the chiseled abs and biceps, which is what tends to be the focus. Some of the pictures they have cover up their crotch. So... not really sure if this helps your argument.

If the Avatars are dressed in the sexy wear that i have seen popping up then of course its part of the over all look. Its like going to a male review. We don't just go there to see their perfectly sculpted bodies. If we wanted that we would hit the beach or the pool but lets face it the only guys wearing speedos there are old men and hairy weirdos LMAO. Me and My Girlfriends go to shows on girls night to see bulging dongs and have a good time seeing them shake it. And if, much to my joy, we are going to finally have the option to dress up the male avatars in bunny boy outfits and what not then i wanna see the full packaged look. I Love that a lot of players are dressing up their male avatars in equally sexy looks that in MMO's have usually only been found in the female avatar looks. But it just falls short when someone sets a buffet only to forge to PUT OUT THE MEAT! LMAO! and I'm a girl who likes her beef He he he!

[BluntGamerChick]

I think the equivalent of a bulge slider would be a camel toe slider, but the latter would send the game rating through the roof.

No need they already gave Yda/Lyse pretty much had it in those tight short shorts of hers. Use to gag when they would close up on Papalymo and her crotch was right there lacking only that line. But then that just further proves my point about the visual bias of the game. If the game designers are going to be blatantly sexist in making a woman's attire skimpy, revealing and overly sexual, fine. But Id like to see equally sexualized male forms even if it is only available with player creation choices. You see the Ma'cote exotic dancers all over the place, the crafting gear at one point when i made a new outfit to up my stats had my avatars cleavage up to her neck and wearing freakin garter stockings. WHAT DOES DRESSING LIKE A HOOKER HAVE TO DO WITH CRAFTING! My post may seem silly but it has a point. Whats good for one is good for the other. IF your gonna make the females look like hookers i wanna see the men be just as cheap.

[BluntGamerChick]

I just want an ass slider. My cat girl alt looks awkwardly highschoolish no matter how mature I try to make her appear.

yeah well, at least they don't look like children in appearance and personality like the Lalafell. I'm sorry but it smacks of pedophilia the whole race. contrary to the voices used in the cut scenes which attempt to make the Lalafell seem like fully grown mature adults the fact is that in appearance and emotes they act like children and its creepy AF to see them in the hooker wear and or portrayed as pimps like the guy in Costa Del Sol. It really makes me wonder what kind of pervs were behind the creation and concept of the Lalafell. And before people get bent out of shape about my remark let me make something bluntly and perfectly clear. I was repeatedly molested by my step father at the age of 5 so when i speak about the pedophilia feel of the Lalafell race and how they fit in this world which is filled with sexual overtones and innuendo not to mention the content of child sex trade in the main story line with Yotsuyu, then believe i am not talking out of my backside but from experience as a survivor. How the T rating is maintained because of such content and isn't upped to Mature is beyond me.

[BluntGamerChick]

yeah well, at least they don't look like children in appearance and personality like the Lalafell. I'm sorry but it smacks of pedophilia the whole race. contrary to the voices used in the cut scenes which attempt to make the Lalafell seem like fully grown mature adults the fact is that in appearance and emotes they act like children and its creepy AF to see them in the hooker wear and or portrayed as pimps like the guy in Costa Del Sol. It really makes me wonder what kind of pervs were behind the creation and concept of the Lalafell. And before people get bent out of shape about my remark let me make something bluntly and perfectly clear. I was repeatedly molested by my step father at the age of 5 so when i speak about the pedophilia feel of the Lalafell race and how they fit in this world which is filled with sexual overtones and innuendo not to mention the content of child sex trade in the main story line with Yotsuyu, then believe i am not talking out of my backside but from experience as a survivor. How the T rating is maintained because of such content and isn't upped to Mature is beyond me.

But i digress, I didn't make this post to get all serious and intense about such issues but to lightheartedly and pointedly to speak on a matter of which i feel is justified. the equal portrayal of the male and female toons in their looks and attributes. Some responses have been equally fun and others glib and ridiculous but we all have our opinions and we should all feel free to express them. I am simply exercising my opinion. I've been playing MMO's a long time but FF14 is the only one to really take a step in making men just as silly sexy as the females when they made bunny outfits wearable by the males. I LOVED IT! when they did that i thought that for once a MMO might be open to the suggestion that a little more equality could be considered. Ive always been annoyed by how the same armor on males looked like hooker gear on females and in WOW it made me annoyed that my Night Elf would hop in place and her chest bounce if she was idle too long. I Love playing MMO's I just don't like the gender bias, male dominated aspect of it. the female avatars being sexy is fine i like to dress my, as i call her, Doll in pretty cloths. Just like to see the male forms as equally endowed to level the visual fun. However the Lala's can all stay undefined please. They are creepy enough as is.

[kikix12]

I do wonder if the people who are still against male bunnies (because apparently all bunnies IRL are female) would also argue against male catboys if ARR didn't add them as playable.

Um..."Bunnies" here refer to costume, while "catboys" refer to a race...You really think that's comparable?!

Yes, I'd think the same of a "catboy" costume as I think of a male "bunny" costume. For esthetic and thematic reasons. As in, I wouldn't be happy with them appearing.

Yes, I'd think the same about a male "bunny" race as of the "catboy" race. As in, it's perfectly fine.

Male viera were designed. The viera race was made female-only originally, but I don't really see much of an issue with giving them male variant, just like I have no issue with mermen or male ice spirits ala. yuki-onna. A race cannot be compared to a costume.

I don't need to put a counterargument when you literally just made a post going on an entire tangent that had nothing to do with the original point, let alone being completely untrue.

It had something to do with what another poster wrote, and you didn't seem to take a problem with them. So...what are you on about here?! Just cause it's not to your fancy you negate it in whole...Quality discussion skills.

There are male bunny suits.

Show me a photo of a male bunny suit stylized around the traditional, female bunny version. And then show me it being used for anything seriously.
Bunny suits are work clothes in certain branches of gambling and entertainment after all. A male equivalent would need to be work clothes in similar fashion.

Don't get me wrong. I know that there are bunny-inspired costumes for male. But that's not what we are talking about, or what most requesting bunny suit for men was thinking of. Most were thinking of THAT bunny suit, in a male version. THAT bunny suit is a specific design with specific attributes to it, and a bunny suit that does not have those attributes is not what was requested. It's all part of the language use and the meaning of words. Because, yes, meanings of words do matter, regardless of how much people can devalue them.

And there is obviously some level of attraction to the male bunny outfit if it has been asked about constantly at Fanfests, interviews and the like. Regardless of whether people wanted it masculine or feminine, they got it.

I never said there is not. Heck. There are people attracted to feces. Should I consider a "shitty look" a mandatory inclusion into a game to cater to the need of these people?! Yes, I used something that is found attractive a LOT less than a feminine bunny suit for males would ever be, but that's only to show a point.

"Unappealing to the majority" only ever translates to "if you're not a female miqo'te or au ra, your opinion doesn't matter" in this game.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put me into one bag with people that base their identity on superfluous things like that. My main character is female because it's something I'll see the whole time I'm playing this game, and I'm more attracted to female esthetics, especially since my past experiences with MMO games show that there is absolutely no chance that attractive/cool male costumes would be readily available. I couldn't care less what race or class anyone else plays, nor what I play, as far as any of my opinions go. Real life and game are two different worlds. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it's as valid as that of anyone else. However I don't need to agree with an opinion of someone else just cause theirs is seemingly unpopular. I abhor people implying or outright saying "racism", "discrimination", "sexism", "oppression" and all that jazz, when vast majority of the time the matter at hand have absolutely ZERO to do with it.

Actually, there was a post or thread a while back that actually said 'the majority hate the male bunny outfit', except almost ALL the posts FOR the male bunny outfit were liked, while the ones against it maybe had one or two likes at most. Though that's skewed due to the fact that it is based off forum-goers rather than the entire playerbase.

That's not unbelievable, nor is it relevant. First, hostile posts will get hostile responses even from people that agree with them in nature. And the "winners" will be calm while the "losers" will be hostile most of the time. That's human nature.
Second, male bunny suits, though unappealing to me and some others, are a step towards developers putting greater interest in male glamour. That's a positive, regardless of whether the costume itself is an eyesore to the person in question. Not only it. There are many costumes that are an eyesore to me, but there are many people that like them. And vice versa. It's fine, that's what "entitled to own opinion" means. I don't care how other look, in real life or game. Rather, I would like them looking appealing to me, of course, but if they don't...I just avoid focusing on them. If that's impossible and it irritates me, I can always quit the party, move away, look another way etc. I am responsible for dealing with my own issues, and matters of personal taste are...well...personal. Duh. As such non-hostile posts that try to argument the reasons behind implementation of something with objective positives and subjective negatives will clearly get more likes, because not only they'll get them from people that agree with the theme and/or ideology behind them, but also from those that simply are irked by the other side of the argument and their hostility. A defense mechanism if you will. After all, for herd animals like humans, hostile individuals are a threat.

My biggest issue however is that your post tried to pass off your own opinion as fact, when, at least on the forums, there's more people for the male bunny outfit than not.

I'm sorry, but my point takes into consideration the world at large. Not a small community that is largely homogenized in their tastes...because they do enjoy the same kind of a game. If you go to a concert of an artist, you'll get vast majority of them saying that the artist is great, even if the world at large will consider them to suck.

The point is simple. If the costume would be widely appealing, it would be widely used for its appeal in real life, in all seriousness. But let me ask you this. Assuming you are a man, if you were offered a job that would involve you walking around in such a costume for 8h straight, surrounded by hundredths of people...would you feel no issue at all? Yes, there are people that would be perfectly fine with that, and if you are one of them, then this approach is a fail. There's nothing wrong with that after all. But if it's something you would need to consider or have the slightest hesitation about...then there's an answer.

[Joven]

However the Lala's can all stay undefined please. They are creepy enough as is.

If a lala was well hung it would scrape the ground and probably cause a lot of pain.

[Ryaz]

You do realize the men in this game are neuters? Just look at them in the tanga briefs. There's nothing there.

As for a well-hung Lala... I'd call him Tripod.