Gender Bias in Character Creation

[KisaiTenshi]

This is Part for Fun and Part serious suggestion. I recently read an article that talked about how the MMO Conan Exiles has included slide bar sizing of Male avatars for their naughty bits. Now I've always thought it very sexist that there is a size selection for breasts in MMO's but men's groins are fixed. I figured games were just unwilling to go there but now since CE has decided to level the playing field I honestly and wholeheartedly endorse that FF14 show gender equality. Sizing for one and not the other is sexists. So why not provide sizing for Male Avatars too? I Applaud the sexy outfits provided for the males but frankly without adequate equipment it might as well be a flat chested female avatar. LOL!

There's multiple problems with the school of thought of "make everything equal", and that largely comes back to how much the game avatar is "you".

I am not Miqo'te in real life, shocker. s/

However when I was given the option to edit the V1.0 character for 2.0, I made my character the same height as I am. That's about the extent of wanting anything reflect reality. I adjusted the breasts towards the smaller size, I picked a red/purple hair consistent with what I normally use for avatars, and pretty much everything else was "does it look cute?"

The default Hyur, I didn't pick because I don't pick the boring race in a game. Why not the Lalafell or Elezen, or Roe? During Beta I didn't like how the lalafells moved (it seemed like they were hovering 2 feet in the air) , I don't like the necks on the elezen, and the Roe... just wasn't cute to me.

Now, FFXV doesn't have the option to play a Miqo'te, it has a much more capable character creator, but the character I created end result looked more like Lightning from FFXIII than my FFXIV character. XV lets you create characters with different muscle definition, weight, height, etc, by initially blending two premade characters together.

I do not want to play a character that looks exactly like me. I want to play a character that is what I feel is the best representation of my personality. To that end I aim for cute and intelligent. More "realistic" looking characters tend to not be cute at all, and instead end up being various degrees of boring.

So I'm all for better character creation, but there are certain things that aren't "character" creation at all, they're just about making ERP in a game that is rated T or M without hitting the AO rating. So making any kind of changes to the crotch ("package", "camel toe", etc) is about giving people ways to ERP, nothing else. Most characters, even in cut scenes, are seen from the navel upwards. If zoomed out to a point where you can see the character's entire body, you usually will not have their crotch in the middle of the screen. Except in this game if you're a lalafell.

To that end, a game that lets players wear all the gear the game has, while having significant character creation options is better than a game that locks you into one "skin" that is more configurable, but you have to have that appearance for the entire life of the game.

At some point, I'm sure some future MMO will allow you to upload your 23andme or ancestry.com DNA to it and produce a character that is significantly more like how you actually look than deal with all the character creation knobs and levers, and even AI can look at several photos of your face and determine how to set the character creation to best get that profile and haircut. But I want this to always be an optional thing.

It's clear that FFXIV V1.0 was trying to stay under/at the T rating, because V1.0 the breast size of the characters was tied to specific presets, there was no slider. The routinely mentioned "butt slider" was never a thing, and we keep (in jest) asking for it because the original V1.0 models were more complicated and Miqo'te has a somewhat more defined butt, and all their gear took into account their tail. Adding some kind of butt adjustment to 2.x+ was never going to be a thing, but if it was, it would be something that all races and genders would have access to. It's just present gear does not take this into account, hence why we will likely never see any changes to character creation.

[KageTokage]

It's clear that FFXIV V1.0 was trying to stay under/at the T rating, because V1.0 the breast size of the characters was tied to specific presets, there was no slider.

I honestly didn't think that was something could affect a game's rating very much.

I still remember how much of uproar people made about the fact that they removed the slider for the US release of Xenoblade Chronicles X (Which being a second party Nintendo game seemed a bit more understandable).

[KisaiTenshi]

I honestly didn't think that was something could affect a game's rating very much.

I still remember how much of uproar people made about the fact that they removed the slider for the US release of Xenoblade Chronicles X (Which being a second party Nintendo game seemed a bit more understandable).

The Dead or Alive series are rated M/PEGI16, and they have jiggle physics.

https://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.aspx

TEEN
Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up.
May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language.


MATURE
Content is generally suitable for ages 17 and up.
May contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language.


ADULTS ONLY
Content suitable only for adults ages 18 and up.
May include prolonged scenes of intense violence, graphic sexual content and/or gambling with real currency.

Note how it goes from "suggestive" to "sexual content" to "graphic sexual content". To be fair, fighting games are simply violent and that is why they get at least a T, and only get the M if there's blood.

The problem is that "American" stores will not carry AO/PEGI18 games, even their online ones (except Steam now, who said they don't care at all.) So there is a lot of trying to dance around the rating guidelines because they're pretty much BS.

You can have a very cute looking game with no objectionable graphics at all, and have exactly one character say "shit" and now it's T rated. Yet a game that is fully of murder and mayhem in a cartoon style is also "T".

When it comes to sexual things in games, the stupidest thing will push the game rating. Yet pretty much every violent thing is acceptable as long as blood and giblets aren't shown.

[KageTokage]

The Dead or Alive series are rated M/PEGI16, and they have jiggle physics.

I think the main reason that series earns its M rating was because it explicitly draws attention to its fanservice elements, the...generous physics included.

Games can usually get away with things like a bust slider and/or jiggle physics (Of which XIV has both, but to a more modest extent then a lot of other games) without pushing up the rating if they're not being obviously marketed for the sexuality and avoid drawing too much attention to them through things like convenient camera angles and such.

What TC wants is basically never featured outside M/A rated games, though.

[Duskane]

The Dead or Alive series are rated M/PEGI16, and they have jiggle physics.

Mario odyssey has jiggle physics and its rated E for everyone

[Eloah]

Dafaq.... is this thread for real. Okay a few things.

One, a woman's breasts and a man's groin are not the same thing anatomical, but they are the same thing conceptually. Men don't know how it feels to have something strapped to their chest, and women don't understand what it feels like to walk with something between their legs.

Second, the whole sizing issue is just a state of mind. Both males and females feel bigger is better, but that is not the case. Irl if both were as big as could be, daily activities would be harder and clothing a nightmare.

Lastly, this is a videogame, what does it matter? I am all for equality, but this just seems too far in that direction. Breasts are not sexual, they are becoming sexual, but they represent maternal power, that's why any sexual festivals don't feature breast they feature whats lower. A breast slider makes a bit more sense since breasts are "always on display" if you will. But either way the clothing texture overrides it anyway, so what does it matter.

Remember this, the old saying of boys want a girl like mom and girls want a boy like dad, is biological fact. The mom scenario is about the breast, but the dad one is not about the groin, cause eww....

Also lets see how long it takes for the misinterpretations to happen, lol

[RaquelleAvarosa]

What in the ever loving truck did I just read? Deek sliders? Really? Flippin’ serious? /facepalm

[Fredco191]

...

How do you feel about butt size sliders though?

[Jandor]

How do you feel about butt size sliders though?

Feels like they're more meme than serious request at this point.

Either way, we don't need them either.

[Hestzhyen]

How do you feel about butt size sliders though?

I wish they were more than a joke request at this point. I don't stare at my character's rear all day but on the few occasions where I make an outfit that would show it off... there's nothing to appreciate. Butt sliders for all!