Healer DPS - enjoyable or a chore?

[Brightamethyst]

Really wish SE would make things actually healing intensive, so that only healing wasn't basically picking my nose and waiting for HP to go down

The problem is that healing itself is pretty binary. HP goes down, you bring it back up. There are various ways to approach it, direct heal vs regen vs preemptive shield, etc, but in the end it's still the same game up HP down, HP up over and over. Unless they make incoming damage so high that non-stop healing is required all the time (which to me sounds very stressful and not fun), DPS will always be the downtime action.

[Lynesse]

I think it's important to distinguish between healing in the average PUG and healing in a group that's fully in control of a fight.

In a PUG, where the group is disorganized and everyone (including you) is either learning or has forgotten mechanics, it's perfectly acceptable to stop DPSing so that you can assess where people are and plan for incoming damage. Some people struggle, and it's okay to slow down and think about what they're doing wrong so that you can keep them alive. This isn't your fault. Losing them might even be a bigger DPS loss -- I've seen plenty of people who are exceptional at their rotations but who also get hit because they're inexperienced. This isn't even mentioning how risky resurrections can be when you've already burned MP healing avoidable damage.

It's pure chaos in groups like this, and it's understandable why a lot of healers are stressed, but really, please go easy on yourselves.

[Elamys]

The problem is that healing itself is pretty binary. HP goes down, you bring it back up. There are various ways to approach it, direct heal vs regen vs preemptive shield, etc, but in the end it's still the same game up HP down, HP up over and over. Unless they make incoming damage so high that non-stop healing is required all the time (which to me sounds very stressful and not fun), DPS will always be the downtime action.

That was their attempt in WoW and it was like that for a while, though it's been so long i don't know if it's still like that (honestly, I've always spent far more time in WoW actually using my healing abilities than in XIV) and while it was definitely a little more stressful, it wasn't that bad. It certainly felt more rewarding to carry a group through a tough healing check when the pattern wasn't no party damage...no party damage...tank buster so CD him...no party damage forever...OH SHIT PARTY AOE SPAM SPAM...no party damage, guess i'll dps...Rather, the pattern was more like constant trickles of damage interspersed with big damage on a few raid members (mostly tanks) and big raid-wide damage.

[KisaiTenshi]

Although I know this wasn't to me... perhaps I can offer a different perspective, that might or might not be similar to mutemutt's feelings.

Healing is highly situational, at least in high end content. There's no set rotation because players aren't perfect, have different levels of gear and survivability, and use or don't use mitigation, potions, and so on. Squeezing in a rez or blowing a CD on an emergency recovery might require changing routine timings. As such, while you can plan for certain mechanics, you must nonetheless be ready and able to react to a changing situation.

DPS is not situational. It doesn't matter if your rotation is 3 buttons or 27 buttons. There is an optimal pattern to always follow. You never need to adjust to the needs of the party, you simply do as much as possible.

So personally...This is why I don't like DPS. Even if SE adds more buttons for healer DPS, it's going to be the same boring crap. If I wanted that I'd play a DPS class, but I find them boring and I doubt SE will ever implement one that doesn't have a set rotation (or at best, priority system a la brd/mch), because that's the nature of the combat system in FFXIV.

One of the often repeated, and wrong, things that shows up in these discussions is what the "healer rotation" is. There simply isn't one. Each healer tool reflects a certain situation, and you can choose to ignore the situation in favor of another.

Raise/Resurrection/Ascend
Esuna - Cleanse a removable debuff
Cure/Benefic - Small heals, usually around 10%, cast after small damage
Cure II/Benefic II - Large heals , between 30% and 50%, cast after large damage
Medica/Helios - Party heal, cast when at least 2 party members are down by 30%
Regen/Diurnal Aspected Benefic - Counter a non-removable debuff/constant bleed.
Medica II/Diurnal Aspected Helios - Counter a party non-removable debuff/constant bleed

Cure III - Targeted Party heal - Heal the tank and melee's around the boss (from a safe distance).

Aero/Aero II/Combust - DoT, instant cast, and the only DPS you have time for before level 45
Stone/Stone II/Malefic/Malefic II - Single Target, thus should only be used when there is only a single target, or targets are stunned/telegraphing avoidable damage.
Holy/Celestial Opposition - Use for the Stun effect, usable twice, not useful during bosses except during add phases.

The level 50+ tools are to specifically counter situations in the 50+ content.
Most DPS classes at level 50, the rotation is all about AOE and DoT's. With Healers, there is no "rotation", and the most efficient thing to do depends on the size of the pull the tank does, and if they last more than 2 seconds.

Assize/Earthly Star+Stellar Detonation - There is little strategic use in Assize/Stellar Detonation. Use it or lose it.
Asylum/Collective Unconscious - Use when telegraphed heavy damage is about to strike
Tetragrammaton/Benediction/Essential Dignity - Use on self or party members who are raised or on tanks when they are taking more damage than you can heal through.

Divine Benison - Use on tank on tank busters, or on self to prevent KO, not typically usable outside of raid content.

Aero III is the only additional "DPS only" at level 58, and is useful for being another DoT and all upcoming large groups of mobs. Use in combination with Holy and Assize.
Gravity on the other hand has no DoT or Debuff, thus it's usefulness is only for damage on a group of mobs, and may be used like one would do "holy spam", but if you have time to cast it, you probably are neglecting healing.

Scholar is played differently than WHM/AST, where WHM has one more extra healing tool (Plenary Indulgence), and AST has it's cards, Scholar has the Fairy. One fairy is the defense fairy (Eos) and one is the offence fairy (Selene), and the fairy choice either reduces the healing needed to be done by the healer, or increases the party damage/speed.

Scholar, and to some extent Astrologian's Umbral sect, plays out more like this:

Physick - Primary small heal (eq cure/benefic)
Adloquium - Primary Shield + heal (eq cure II/benefic II)
Succor - Party Shield + heal (eq medica/helios)
Sacred Soil - Used in the same manner of Asylum and Collective Unconscious
Lustrate = Tetragrammaton/Essential Dignity, however as it's tied to Aetherflow, may be used multiple times.



Indomitability = Party Heal-only, tied to aetherflow

Deployment Tactics - Extends Galvanize.
Emergency Tactics - used to convert the next Adloquium/Succor into Cure III
Excogitation - A type of situational lazy-heal like Synastry (eg useful under circumstances to heal a second target while not directly healing the first)


Scholar's is more useful for it's raid utility because it has a lower level of healing attention needed due to shielding. It's still possible to overheal and waste MP by needlessly casting Succor like a WHM/AST would cast Medica/Medica II without there being damage to heal.

Scholar's DPS skills don't have any real combo other than Bio/Bio II/Miasma/Miasma II + Bane (With SB Bio and Bio II were folded into each other, but not Miasma, however miasma II requires getting near the target.) So basically you do Chain Strategem if available, throw the Dot's out, and then Ruin/Broil/Broil II until something else requires attention.

Ultimately Scholar has one more DoT, but no AOE, as Shadow Flare is more like a DoT.

I've played all the raids up to The Royal City of Rabanastre with all three healers (I main WHM, thus have only done the lighthouse with WHM), and I find that Scholar is the one that is the hardest to keep people alive with as it is relatively weaker at recovering HP due to the shields, since shields overwrite instead of stack, any players in a raid spread out. A raid with two scholars is at more of a disadvantage than two WHM or two AST.

But Scholar is the easier one to DPS with, as you just throw DoT's on any one target, Bane, and then do whatever else.

To me, personally, it's a chore. A chore and stressful.

No, not because I mind pressing more buttons, but because I constantly worry whether or not I'm going to be yelled at for "not dpsing" as much as I "should"

I was already bullied into dpsing more than I am comfortable with as a healer, I don't need randoms to yell at me even more.

This is why I suspect less people play healers in general. The people who "green DPS" (queue as healer, but primarily DPS) are more frequently encountered, and one of the reasons why I don't like to Tank.

The lazy strategy used by raiders is "overheal as much as possible" by throwing regen, medica II, succor, etc as frequently as possible without clipping HoT's rather than use any other tool, so they can maximize their DPS burn time. The problem with this strategy is that it really is just forcing the tank and healer to use their self-heals, and ripping the enmity away from the tank easier in doing so. If the tank is using their self-heal, at all, then the healer is not doing their job.

Not every tool in the player's toolbox is good in every situation. Players who adhere to some combo they found on reddit or youtube without the context given for that combo, are not learning why that combo is good for that situation and not others.

Part of the problem is that some content in the game, like PotD/HoH encourages zerg behavior, where you barely get more than a second cast in, and thus non-casters end up being the preferred speed runners. In 4-player content, a similar issue happens when you're the caster and the other players are not casters, you as a caster might only get one or two casts before those trash mobs are dead, thus no combo would ever be possible. So why waste time casting holy or gravity or shadow flare if the mobs are going to be dead by the time the cast finishes?

Pre-SB the "healer should dps" arguments were far more intense, because of one thing. "Cleric Stance", pre-SB healers were simply not supposed to DPS in the party content, because the Cleric Stance punished you for switching. It was intended to allow healers to get through the single-player MSQ content. (Despite that I didn't use Cleric stance at all through 2.0 MSQ, and let me tell you, those fights took a LONG time.) Yoshi-P has stated, multiple times, that Healers are not required to DPS. Obviously you can't get through the Solo content by healing alone, as they're tuned to a DPS.

You'd wonder, well "if the healer wasn't meant to DPS, then why do they have DPS skills?", which as I previously pointed out, the Solo content. There are situational uses in some high end content where the healing requirement becomes zero (eg Ultima's Self Destruct, Syrcus Tower Xande has a "meteors" phase) where the healer would have nothing to do for those phases, hence a switch to cleric stance to shave maybe one or two seconds off that phase would be doable, and then switch back. Instead players were somehow convinced they should be switching stances even during trash to maximize a dps burn.

This is why I keep saying not to ask for more DPS skills or combos for healers, because anything they give us, will either nerf the existing DPS skills we have (as another DoT), or will nerf the entire potency (as a combo.) Our only wildcard is Assize, which you can potentially use more often if you actually use the Cure/Cure II skills instead of just throwing regen/medica II and ignoring everything else.

But just like asking for more DPS, asking more involved healing comes at a cost and we've seen this cost every time Yoshi-P decided to change how the Lilies and how PI/DB work. And if you thin SE won't nerf something because players found a way to make it more efficient than it should be, Ask the players who play Ninja's.

There will always be some combination of buffs that stack in a way that was not intended. When players start demanding that only X role be played for the high end content, that's when that role gets nerfed.

My expectation for 5.0 is that WHM and AST get relabeled Cure I/Cure II/Medica /Medica II in a way that significantly changes how they're used. eg adding a few seconds of regen effect to WHM, or a few seconds of shield for AST, and then not boost the potency of regen instead change it to auto-regen at level 71, where casting anything that recovers HP (by anyone) adds a few seconds of regen. This would also allow a situation where the self-heals also add regen, but the enmity is given to the healer who cast the auto-regen. So cast auto-regen, then medica/cure III = same effect as medica II.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The lazy strategy used by raiders is "overheal as much as possible" by throwing regen, medica II, succor, etc as frequently as possible without clipping HoT's rather than use any other tool, so they can maximize their DPS burn time. The problem with this strategy is that it really is just forcing the tank and healer to use their self-heals, and ripping the enmity away from the tank easier in doing so. If the tank is using their self-heal, at all, then the healer is not doing their job.

It never ceases to amaze how wrong you can be. Raiders do the precise opposite; avoiding overhealing whenever possible. Virtually every healer guide worth reading advocates less overhealing, which is why Regen ticks are valued. Tanks never use their own self-heals in optimal scenarios. In fact, the Warrior rotation burns Equilibrium on pull to generate more enmity. A good group will never see that Warrior turn on Defiance again, thus never will they touch Equilibrium. Likewise, aggro isn't an issue because Shirk and Diversion have trivialized it. Only in Ultimate does White Mage start to threaten tank enmity because of how frequent you'll use Cure III.

Why you continuously speak about raiders when you have no concept or experience raiding baffles me. You have no idea how to heal nor have any business discussing how raiders play. You aren't one. Healer DPS is so ubiquitous in this game because it's laughably easy otherwise. Content simply does not demand constant healing outside of Ultimate. I have purposely done heal only runs on specific content. I am 100% useless due to how little the outgoing damage is.

[Sebazy]

The lazy strategy used by raiders is "overheal as much as possible" by throwing regen, medica II, succor, etc as frequently as possible without clipping HoT's rather than use any other tool, so they can maximize their DPS burn time. The problem with this strategy is that it really is just forcing the tank and healer to use their self-heals, and ripping the enmity away from the tank easier in doing so. If the tank is using their self-heal, at all, then the healer is not doing their job.

Just to add my 2 cents here. You’ve kind of got the gist of what’s happening, but you yourself are guilty of not understanding what’s actually happening with a properly accomplished raider that’s trying to optimise things.

We aren’t overhealing as much as possible by any stretch, that’s just flat out wrong and goes against your point about forcing tanks/dps to self heal surely? Lets leave the raider disdain at the door as it's going to prevent any real discussion here.

What ‘raiders’ (and I’m referring to experienced players with a consistent static here, not wannabes, nor toxic dreamers) tend to actually aim for is simply to minimise the number of GCDs spent on healing freeing up precious time to throw rocks/broils etc. Stacking up Medica IIs and Regens for the sake if it is missing the point. Rather, think of it as a logical train of thought: ‘have I got a long enough window till the next aoe to top this damage sufficently with WD/Asylum alone? Do I need to speed it up with Medica II? Do we need an Idom as well? Does this require a Cure III?' Etcetc. There are times when this involves piling all the work onto the fairy, there are times when it even involves not bothering to maintain Regen. The bottom line is that we are aiming to maximise our potency throughput within the given space of time that we have to work with. And yes, being able to take the group as a whole into account here is a mark of the best.

TLDR: Overhealing as much as possible isn’t a raider thing in the slightest, it’s just inefficient play. Nothing more. Nothing less.

If you’re actually interested in getting some insight as to how a ‘raider’ actually approaches high end optimisation, have a look at Madsin’s healer guide videos on youtube, whilst you undoubtly won’t like his approach, there’s no denying that he does a good job of explaining and demonstrating his thinking in them. Maybe that’ll help set the raid healing record straight for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtOpygtU7lA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpd3rmWAuWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1XkCl2ljM4

Hope this helps.

[AmeliaVerves]

One of the often repeated, and wrong, things that shows up in these discussions is what the "healer rotation" is. There simply isn't one. Each healer tool reflects a certain situation, and you can choose to ignore the situation in favor of another.

While I generally agree to this, your situational usage of the healing skills is just off. D:
I dunno man, maybe you are struggling with healing, 'cause you haven't found the best way of handling situations yet. :/





Since I haven't posted here before regarding the OP I will just say a few things.
I generally like DPSing as healer, even tho it can be boring some time, especially in easier content. For me the "one button spam"-healer dps is somewhat ok for savage raids, since it gives you free room to plan on your next heals and watch your party while you don't have to care for a rotation but still be able to bring some damage to the table.
Since the last changes on AST this is the most fun healer for me (I don't really play SCH so it's really only between WHM and AST). The shorter Cast on Malefic makes the whole play really smooth and a lot more engaging than the harsch clipping we had before.

But in the end I mostly enjoy planning, adjusting and improving heals (even tho I still have to learn a lot about that ) to be more and more efficient and make more room to DPS for my Co-heal and myself.

If you’re actually interested in getting some insight as to how a ‘raider’ actually approaches optimisation, have a look at Madsin’s healer guide videos on youtube[...]

o.o
rushing to youtube cause I didn't knew something like this existed

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

I dps when I feel its safe to do so, which is fairly often. I'd get bored otherwise. With that said, I don't like that I'm expected to dps, and not just dps but dps at a certain level (mostly in ex/savage). Don't get me wrong, I totally get how annoying it is to see a healer just standing around doing nothing when there's nothing to heal and I never do that, but at the same time, in hard content, I don't like that some people expect my dps to reach or exceed a certain threshold.

[Lynesse]

snip

I totally second this.

Just to add to that: Not to sound like an old fart, but people are too concerned with playing at a certain level when their focus should be on growing as players, and doing so at their own pace. Relax and enjoy the game, I say.

I don't do EX/Savage right now, but I'm in the "as long as I'm busy, I'm contributing" camp.

There's a video by Baka Games called "A Fair Attempt (Trial Roulette Madness)." It's a very educational watch for any healer who worries about DPSing.

[SargentToughie]

It never ceases to amaze how wrong you can be. Raiders do the precise opposite; avoiding overhealing whenever possible. Virtually every healer guide worth reading advocates less overhealing, which is why Regen ticks are valued. Tanks never use their own self-heals in optimal scenarios. In fact, the Warrior rotation burns Equilibrium on pull to generate more enmity. A good group will never see that Warrior turn on Defiance again, thus never will they touch Equilibrium. Likewise, aggro isn't an issue because Shirk and Diversion have trivialized it. Only in Ultimate does White Mage start to threaten tank enmity because of how frequent you'll use Cure III.

Why you continuously speak about raiders when you have no concept or experience raiding baffles me. You have no idea how to heal nor have any business discussing how raiders play. You aren't one. Healer DPS is so ubiquitous in this game because it's laughably easy otherwise. Content simply does not demand constant healing outside of Ultimate. I have purposely done heal only runs on specific content. I am 100% useless due to how little the outgoing damage is.

I have legitimately never seen somebody so aggressive in defense of their own ignorance before.

Kisai posts paragraphs upon paragraphs of objective, flat out lies. And when called out on it she just doubles down on how toxic and evil the raiding playerbase is.

Oh well. We live in a post fact world already anyway. What's one more to the pile?