Why is Quietus so weak?

[SummerScorcher]

Now I know PLD's have it much worse in terms of AoE, but I'm curious as to why they made Quietus so underwhelming.

Comparing unbuffed Quietus to its "rival" Decimate, it's 160 potency vs. 280 potency.
I wouldn't be so cross over it if Dark Arts would buff it up by 140 potency like it does on all other skills now (which would make it a strong 300 potency AoE move) but it just adds +50 potency, suggesting to only use it at 3+ mobs. It feels underwhelming.

Even then, at 3 monsters, if you're in Grit you're probably better off using DA + Bloodspiller anyway since it adds +175 potency vs. +150.


Anyhow, I'm not saying buff Quietus (though I'd welcome it), DRK's AoE potential is decent enough as it is. But I do find it a shame that this skill feels so meager. It's supposed to be Bloodspiller's counterpart, but feels more like Bloodspiller's little bro.

What do guys you think about it?

[Marxam]

I always thought Quietus as a utility tool to regain mp when spamming dark art + abyssal drain or as I like to call it DAAD!!!!

[Valdegarde]

The fact that Quietus restores MP drastically helps. Curiously, it did not restore MP upon Stormblood's release, this was patched in later. With Blood Price's major nerf, it made wonder if they intended for it to restore MP and forgot to add that as an effect, or added it in later after realizing Dark Knight's underperformance. I was always deeply unsettled by this seemingly emergency fix, it could have possibly been an afterthought that just did not occur to them during Dark Knight's Stormblood development, which says a lot...but I digress.

That aside, I think Dark Knights and Quietus go well together now, as it creates one of the most fun tactics in the game for me, certainly the most fun of any class's AoE: Blood Weapon + Quietus. This fast paced little dance is one of the main reasons I've stuck with Dark Knight through Stormblood, as it's some of the most hectic and cool things I've done in the game. The relationship between Salted Earth, Blood Weapon, Quietus, Dark Passenger and TBN allows for the potential to top the DPS charts and reduce or even completely replace healing from your healer.

It may not compare to a fully Inner Released Decimate spam, but I don't think it's supposed to. The way Quietus works for Dark Knight's AoE game now allows for cool potential that I wish was more prevalent in their single target playstyle.

[Xenosan]

I think Dark Knight's whole AOE kit is underwhelming considering how many Abilities they have committed to it

[Eloah]

If DRKd AoE kit is underwhelming what about PLD? Tgey have like 2 skills.

[Azerhan]

Hey, just wonder if there is any guide to maximise dps in AoE for some jobs, I'll look after it.
I would say the DRK's AoE gameplay is quite fun, like said before. I would like tbh that a well executed combo makes more damages thought.

[Lyth]

While there are definitely parts of DRK's AoE toolkit that are a lot of fun (i.e. the TBN/Quietus interaction), there are parts that are less well thought out. I feel like there could be some benefit to standardising the value of DA in AoE, similar to what was done with single target in 4.3.

-Abyssal Drain costs 0.55 DA for 120 potency/target. Unleash costs 0.45 DA for 50 potency/target. The average single target GCD is worth 267 potency.
-If you Unmend, you can trigger a proc to make Unleash free.
-You could spend an extra DA on Quietus for an extra 50 potency/target. You could spend it on Abyssal Drain as a self-heal at a dps loss.

Looking at these, it's not really intuitively obvious how these trade-offs work. Why on earth are we using multiples like 0.45 and 0.55? Could we not just set Abyssal Drain at 0.5 DA for simplicity? Does Unmend serve a function any more once you get Abyssal Drain? Could we not just remove it and drop Abyssal Drain down to level 6? If the value of DA on Quietus is 50 potency, should it not also be 50 potency on Abyssal Drain for equivalency?

I also feel that Blood Price and Blood Weapon also have their share of problems here. Under Blood Price, you have periods of infinite MP where potency per MP doesn't matter at all, as long as you're in Grit and you have enmity. Dropping Grit, Blood Weapon gives you large bursts of MP under Quietus, but has no interaction with Abyssal Drain or Dark Passenger at all. Can we just merge Blood Price and Weapon into a single ability that gives MP/blood per mob hit up to some fixed cap (i.e. hitting 6+ targets generates the same amount of MP/blood as hitting 5), regardless of stance, and regardless of whether the attack is physical or magical? You'd lose out on the infinite MP, but gain a system that was at least more consistent.

[TouchandFeel]

snip

I second pretty much all of what Lyth said, many of those points are things I have been asking to be addressed for a long time.

In addition I really feel Quietus should compensate for the Grit damage penalty like Bloodspiller does.

[Shurrikhan]

While there are definitely parts of DRK's AoE toolkit that are a lot of fun (i.e. the TBN/Quietus interaction), there are parts that are less well thought out. I feel like there could be some benefit to standardising the value of DA in AoE, similar to what was done with single target in 4.3.

-Abyssal Drain costs 0.55 DA for 120 potency/target. Unleash costs 0.45 DA for 50 potency/target. The average single target GCD is worth 267 potency.
-If you Unmend, you can trigger a proc to make Unleash free.
-You could spend an extra DA on Quietus for an extra 50 potency/target. You could spend it on Abyssal Drain as a self-heal at a dps loss.

Looking at these, it's not really intuitively obvious how these trade-offs work. Why on earth are we using multiples like 0.45 and 0.55? Could we not just set Abyssal Drain at 0.5 DA for simplicity? Does Unmend serve a function any more once you get Abyssal Drain? Could we not just remove it and drop Abyssal Drain down to level 6? If the value of DA on Quietus is 50 potency, should it not also be 50 potency on Abyssal Drain for equivalency?

I also feel that Blood Price and Blood Weapon also have their share of problems here. Under Blood Price, you have periods of infinite MP where potency per MP doesn't matter at all, as long as you're in Grit and you have enmity. Dropping Grit, Blood Weapon gives you large bursts of MP under Quietus, but has no interaction with Abyssal Drain or Dark Passenger at all. Can we just merge Blood Price and Weapon into a single ability that gives MP/blood per mob hit up to some fixed cap (i.e. hitting 6+ targets generates the same amount of MP/blood as hitting 5), regardless of stance, and regardless of whether the attack is physical or magical? You'd lose out on the infinite MP, but gain a system that was at least more consistent.

Personally, my favorite part of DRK is when it hits "critical mass" so to speak, whereupon, with enough enemies present, it needs no healer or can just about keep up with Warrior's Inner Release AoE dps due to BW-Quietus refunding itself. My least favorite: how rare those situations are, and how starkly we lose access to them. Well, apart from Blood Price's anti-synergy with AoE stuns.

I like the idea of wanting to stance-swap, much like how Scourge enticed even the most timid DRK out of Grit for at least a bit per 30 seconds, while Blood Price now wants you to be back in Grit, but dislike the MP and uptime costs attached to stance swapping... Blood Price has its issues, but I'd rather keep it separate (even if bound to the same key, assuming you could see two recast timers within the same slot, with some universal revisions) than see it merged with Blood Weapon, if only to maintain that ebb and flow, assuming that Grit itself, and DRK stance-dancing, could be improved upon. The larger Blood Price issue, honestly, is how massively affected it is by enemy attack speed. If it's not going to scale with the actual damage dealt, therefore seeing use even in boss fights by allowing you to cheesily immunity-CD massive hits for massive mana, or damage that would have been dealt (i.e. pre-mitigation) as to invite less hatred from healers, then it'd feel like a huge improvement just to have Blood Price continually drain mana from enemies around you.

Similarly, I'd like for Unleash and Abyssal Drain to be separate, viable options that have different rotational places and purposes in AoE. But that would require first making them actually distinct in more than just potency and enmity modifier. Essentially, I'd prefer the -- presently false -- complexity make something out of itself, rather than the toolkit be trimmed down (in terms of buttons required) to its current complexity.

[Saeno]

Comparing unbuffed Quietus to its "rival" Decimate, it's 160 potency vs. 280 potency.

Decimate also crit+direct hits 5 times in a row under Inner release. Decimate is a lot stronger than quietus because of WAR's kit, not just decimate on it's own so I think it's a little unfair to compare them unbuffed. I don't think DRK's aoe needs to be buffed to be comparible to a tank that can deal higher aoe damage than almost all other DPS jobs. I think this is one of the few cases where one job's aoe kit is so above and beyond that it's unreasonable for DRK to be buffed accordingly unless every job in the game gets buffed so hard that 5x inner release decimates seems average.

Going on a tangent, but DRK's aoe kit is also way above and beyond PLD's kit. If Holy spirit is like Fell cleave and bloodspiller, then PLD's do not even have anything similar to Decimate or Quietus. Total eclipse is weaker than overpower and Abyssal and those aren't even the strongest skills on those jobs. Sword oath also does not help aoe damage output unlike Storms eye and Darkside. Sword oath is entirely single target. The difference between PLD's kit to DRK's kit is about as bad as WAR's kit to DRK's kit. I agree that the balance between aoe damage across the tanks is very weak but im sure SE is aware of that.