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  1. #11
    Player
    DRKoftheAzure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Gridania and Ul'dah (because Ishgard not allowed to be starting city-state :c)
    Posts
    1,118
    Character
    Strea Leonhart
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by mosaicex View Post
    I don't even. Shirking does not eliminate the need for tank swapping in fights that actually require you to do so, it just makes the process smoother. I have no idea what you're trying to complain about.
    Shirk gives 25% of the user's enmity to someone(Mostly the person who is main tanking) sounds like it needs to be on Healer AND DPS role action list instead of tanks, and you certainly don't need 2 role actions dedicated to tank swapping since most fights don't even call for it especially before Stormblood where Shirk wasn't even conceived at that point. Then again I am a DRK main who is still salty about unnecessary nerfs the job shit when Stormblood launched and most role actions felt like a slap to the face if you noticed some of the animations from tank role action or recycled from DRK only actions with different looks.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player
    Kurando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,192
    Character
    Leon Reddas
    World
    Masamune
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 77
    Quote Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure View Post
    Shirk gives 25% of the user's enmity to someone(Mostly the person who is main tanking) sounds like it needs to be on Healer AND DPS role action list instead of tanks
    Let's say this happened, what would you purpose to replace the two actions for NIN that deal with emnity (Shadewalker and Smokescreen)? I mean no one picks NIN just for those actions but it does give it some unique standing amongst the other jobs, having Shirk as cross role for DPS kinda removes that niche for them.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player
    DRKoftheAzure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Gridania and Ul'dah (because Ishgard not allowed to be starting city-state :c)
    Posts
    1,118
    Character
    Strea Leonhart
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurando View Post
    Let's say this happened, what would you purpose to replace the two actions for NIN that deal with emnity (Shadewalker and Smokescreen)? I mean no one picks NIN just for those actions but it does give it some unique standing amongst the other jobs, having Shirk as cross role for DPS kinda removes that niche for them.
    Leave those abilities alone and give Shirk to SAM? The recent "buff" to Merciful Eyes isn't going to be noticeable due to it be gated by an Third Eye proc. Alternatively; Give Shirk to NIN so that NIN has Shadewalker, Smokescreen, and Shirk.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure View Post
    Leave those abilities alone and give Shirk to SAM? The recent "buff" to Merciful Eyes isn't going to be noticeable due to it be gated by an Third Eye proc. Alternatively; Give Shirk to NIN so that NIN has Shadewalker, Smokescreen, and Shirk.
    It's literally free threat reduction, and every savage fight we've had is plentiful on raid wide damage.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player
    DRKoftheAzure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Gridania and Ul'dah (because Ishgard not allowed to be starting city-state :c)
    Posts
    1,118
    Character
    Strea Leonhart
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    It's literally free threat reduction, and every savage fight we've had is plentiful on raid wide damage.
    Latency is a big factor and you also have to perfectly time it in which every other time you can't even get it because of the 3 second window to get the proc for the that reduction which the game asks you to be perfect when other jobs can do that without the need for a proc. Making things needlessly complicated is not fun.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure View Post
    Latency is a big factor and you also have to perfectly time it in which every other time you can't even get it because of the 3 second window to get the proc for the that reduction which the game asks you to be perfect when other jobs can do that without the need for a proc. Making things needlessly complicated is not fun.
    If by 'time it perfectly' you mean 'hit it about 50% cast bar'
    (1)

  7. #17
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,849
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    If by 'time it perfectly' you mean 'hit it about 50% cast bar'
    This. It's been a long time since I've missed a Third Eye. And without a NIN, a Merciful Eyes can mean more for rDPS (via tank dps) than Seigan. I'll Merciful whenever I'm nearing taking MT enmity if it won't lose me a Kaiten, Shinten, or Seigan over TA, or whenever to near to wait. Honestly, without a Monk present, I usually see Shirk again relegated to the tank swaps themselves these days, rather than CircleShirking.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    Kalinas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    149
    Character
    Kalinas Luminas
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekimmak View Post
    Funnily enough, both WERE available for cross-class before the revamp. Cure has a higher potency than Physick to make up for the latter having a fairy helping them.

    When skills have differences in order to balance them (such as proc'ing something, a different cost or a different potency) they aren't good for role skills. I'm assuming that's why Anticipation doesn't get stronger on DRK to make up for taking away Dark Dance. I can only assume Raise stopped being cross class because of Resurrection, since they didn't want to take that away from Summoner.

    The only case I know of where a role skill interacts with an actual job's toolset is how Paladin gets a boost to intervention if Rampart is up, but the thing is, it's not the job changing the role skill, it's the role skill changing the job, which I believe is easier to program.
    Actually Cure, Physick, and Benefic are all the same potency. The only differences are the traits that whm and ast get with them (sch has no traits on physick). Cure has a chance to proc a free Cure 2 and Benefic has a chance to make the next Benefic 2 crit heal.

    Eye for an Eye used to be an arcanist (sch/smn) defensive buff, but now as a role action it's longer cool down and rng nature doesn't make it useful enough anymore. Oddly it still interacts with deployment tactics on sch, but even that is kinda meh.

    I'm on the side that Esuna should be removed from role actions...tired of one hit status things that you have have to bring it for like Ex-Death doom. They could have added a trait to them to make them more interesting or powerful. Maybe whm gets a small aoe cleanse (pancea?). Give sch a warden's paean type shield.

    Protect should be pulled out of role actions and then rename divine benison protect...make it physical damage and then give whm shell version for magic since they lost so many skills in 4.0.

    Break should have been a spammable aoe like ice 2 was (not necessarily the same range) for low level aoe.

    Largesse should boost healing overall...not just magic since that cuts off half of sch's toolkit.

    Something I want to see is a version of shirk for healers...why can't we pass off our healing aggro to tanks?
    (0)
    Last edited by Kalinas; 06-26-2018 at 11:09 AM. Reason: 1000LB

  9. #19
    Player
    Brightamethyst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,792
    Character
    Jenna Starsong
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinas View Post
    Actually Cure, Physick, and Benefic are all the same potency. The only differences are the traits that whm and ast get with them (sch has no traits on physick).
    Cure is 450 potency while the other two are only 400.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player
    Sylvain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,491
    Character
    Sylvestre Solscribe
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Largesse + abilities is a problem that has to be adresses that's for sure.

    Dissipation suffer from the same issue
    (0)

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