To those who loved FF11...

[Brightamethyst]

FFXI was a really great game for its time. Unfortunately, that time was 15 years ago and a lot of it doesn't hold up by today's standards. I loved my time spent with XI, but this many years later there's no way I could ever go back.

Karlina - Unicorn 2004-2010

[Skivvy]

FFXI was a really great game for its time. Unfortunately, that time was 15 years ago and a lot of it doesn't hold up by today's standards. I loved my time spent with XI, but this many years later there's no way I could ever go back.

Karlina - Unicorn 2004-2010

XI is definitely a game of its time. Modern games make many things so fluid, and just more user friendly, i can't blame people for not wanting to ump back into XI after being exposed to new games. :x

[Hamada]

11 was not a better game gameplay wise. A menu based game that put you at a slight disadvantage for not playing in jp thanks to pings was just bad.

I disagree, see, that did nothing outside of NN claiming, here the netcode is so bad you suffer in some way no matter what your ping is because the servers needs to keep rechecking data every 3 seconds. FFXIV tries to be a fast pace game when it is so slow in registering commands and positions, it is very conflicting. Overall FFXI did things better, people just play this game more because of easier access and graphics. In the end of the day FFXIV just been reskining itself since 2.0 something yoshi-p even remarked on when commenting why SB needs to be different, but ended up just repeating reskinning content. Going with this post:

I often think it's not so much the game but more the world in which it is set.
In XIV it’s the player that is pretty much the centre of the universe everything revolves entirely around them. The other people in your party when you do something are nobodies. In comparison when you look at XI it is the game world is the centre of the universe and your player is just one small part of it. That is probably the biggest fundamental difference between them

It is for this reason that I think Vana'diel is (or at least was) a much deeper and better world than Eorzea can ever be. Primarily because Vana'diel was alive, it was dynamic and it was interesting. Eorzea by all comparisons is incredibly bland, lifeless and static.

When you look at FFXI. absolutely everything any player did had some impact on the game world. every single point of exp or every death they suffered for example would shape the balance of power across the world map in some way in the conquest standings. which in turn then impacted availability of various items and goods from vendors and the prices of those items which then impacted the availability of crafted goods on the auction house and again the prices of such.

Then you had thigs like Besieged which makes fates look even more lame than they actually are. Besieged itself was dynamic even if you won you might find one or 2 npcs still got kidnapped and had to be resxued.. or if you lost the candescance the runic portals were unavailable for teleports... everything affected the world in some way. As a result Vana’diel was always changing..
Zones were also much alive and dynamic and often had their own mechanics which bought them to life. You had Ifrits’ Cauldron where you could use Ice cluster to douse the flames and open new paths, Toramai Canal with its 3 mage gate or you could bypass it with the Moon Orb. The Eldieme Necropolis, Garlaige Citadel, SSG, and Quicksand Caves with there respective gate breach mechanics, 1 big galka to stand on a weighted platform and open a door or 3 taru taru... even that mountain in Attowa Chasm you had to climb. and zones like Sacrarium which had a maze that changed every game day (roughly an hour) so many things that bought all these zones to life in their own little ways and made them interesting. also had more variety between them with underground caves, mines, castles, towers, inside big trees, jungles, derelict settlements like Davoi. There was so much variety in the areas.

XI is getting close to 20 years old now and It's game world is lightyears ahead of Eorzea in terms of being dynamic and alive. Eorzea is just bland and lifeless and nothing ever changes. especially with fates.. “Oh no that settlement is being overrun by mobs..”. it doesn't make a difference if you totally ignore them or try to save the day. fate failed. so what..... fate complete, so what..... it makes no difference and thus is pointless.
Eorzea just doesn't have the life or depth Vana'diel does (or did), It never will and I think that's why it's so forgettable in comparison. even on a quest level. many of Eorzea's quests are quite bland and generic. oh no these slugs are ruining our crops kill them for me. yet in XI again I can still remember the epic adventure I took to the palborough miners memorial to uncover the truth about the miners. Or journing through Xacarabard to defeat the shadow lord for the main story..

There's also content as well. XIV's content is all designed in this lifeless structureless way. Just queue something enter it kill a boss done.... XI's was often much more interesting and structured. Einherjar for example meant working as a team trying to clear 9 wings in order to earn that attempt at odin. limbus was the same. you had to work your way through various sections to collect all the items you needed for ultima/omega. Sky was the same so was sea and nyzul isle... and it's the kind of things players have long wanted to see in XIV since well before 2.0 really.
Actual structured content for fcs to do together and stuff.. closest we ever got was potd 101-200 which required a fixed group of people. all be it only 4 of them... a lot of XI's content was very flexible too which was actually better for groups.. in XIV is you have 5,6,7 or 10 people or any number that isn't 4 or 8 you're really stuck for things to do. you either end up getting random help which isn't always ideal. or excluding people entirely..

In XI it was a lot more flexible. it didn't matter if 6 people wanted to do temenos or 16 people. you could nearly always include them all you might not go do ultima with 6 but you could still go and progress another pop set or something.... and that helped a lot with building groups and bonds and friendships.. XIV is by comparison incredibly anti social right down to the msq and that stupid message that often comes up. "you cannot progress this quest because you're in a party" It's an MMO I want to play with friends... again with things like savage loot systems where if you've cleared it that week you cant then help a friend because you'll eliminate the loot chests at the end just by being there...
Gear was better in XI aswell so was getting it.. Summoners for example who wanted the evokers ring had to go and defeat 7 primals for the quest to get the ring. but the feel of satisfaction or accomplishment at the end was there and made the ring feel valuable. XIV nothing has that everything is just temporary junk that has no attachment or value (except perhaps glamour) and thus it all feels lacklustre to get. and in many cases just means players have no motivation to even bother trying to get. because it will be trash tomorrow...

The lack of motivation to gear, I know a few people that are really demotivated from doing salvage or overall "grind for gear" because of the quick turn over issues. I would prefer things to last longer and overall have more meaningful feel. Basically it is this simple concept, why waste your time trying to gear, knowing it will be outdated so quickly? FFXI had weapons, or least ffxi when the cap was 75, had weapons that took years to get. Some people managed to "rush it" in 1 to 3 months, just for a weapon, that still can be used 15 years later after upgrading it. I would love to do something in FFXIV that has more effort put into it where it will last, maybe FFXIV will feel less dead then. (dead as in activity comparing to ffxi you see people doing things, FFXIV, a lot of people are simply afk, doing some emote, or appearing afk cuz they are erping.) queue, enter, get out.. feels monotonous. I wouldn't be playing if i did not have a few good friends to play with

[Brightamethyst]

dead as in activity like how in ffxi you see people doing things, here a lot of people are simply afk, doing some emote, or appearing afk cuz they are erping.

You and I seem to remember XI very differently. What I remember is people sometimes not leaving town for days because they're LFG on an unpopular job and can't do anything else in the mean time.

[Pastahnak]

Games are wildly different in how u play them so you'll get different people saying different things. Ff14 is way more polished and streamlined for a more casual larger audience while ff11 is more drop u in and make u figure things out which is a product of when it was released and brings a more niche audience.

[Hamada]

You and I seem to remember XI very differently. What I remember is people sometimes not leaving town for days because they're LFG on an unpopular job and can't do anything else in the mean time.

That comment was for ffxiv, ffxi, or least when I stopped playing, did not have persistent emotes there. I was saying ffxiv feels dead because of the very thing you said, people can just open up the DF, hit queue and sit and afk till they hear the chime. I was trying to get across people where actually active in talking to each other, shouting stuff other then trolling each other on what a futa is. Ok sometimes there was the auto translate cringe but still, you still had more real socializing then here. Also you got to come across other exp parties, seeing people do things, even on balmung the open world is pretty empty, running in constant fail fates as I gather, no one responding to B rank hunt sightings. Azys Lla is the worst offender for this. I mean in ffxi when you try help someone or teach someone about something, you do not get "balmung is a sad place I see" as a response. I do not get why people had an ability to talk to each other in ffxi and not here

[Seig345]

I don't think you can "settle this once and for all"...

Despite not having made it very far in FFXI, I'll always have a special place in my heart for Vana'diel and its music, its locations, its mystery, and its danger.

Likewise, I'll always have fond memories of of my adventures in Hydaelyn. I enjoy the story for what it is, the music, the social interactions (shorter, granted, but more frequent compared to sitting around LFG while partaking in the idle LS chatter), I'll admit being a sucker for glamour, the faster gameplay.

On a side note, I'm fairly sure I encountered people who manipulated others for gil in both games.

[LastFireAce]

Just stop this, 11 and14 both my Waifu.

[Vhailor]

Let's settle this once and for all. Is FF11 truly a better game? Or are the only ones saying that are those with a nostalgia bias?

It depends how one judges games, I think.

If you prioritize sheer pick-up-and-play, convenient entertainment, FFXIV is, without a doubt, the superior title. If you aren't taking era into account, FFXIV is also the superior title (better control scheme, graphics, technical capabilities, etc.). On the other hand, FFXI offered a deeper, richer overall experience, a far more immersive world, and was more innovative for its time.

To put it in terms of movies, FFXIV is closer to a decent summer action movie. It's fun, it's convenient, it's flashy, anyone can enjoy it, but you don't take much with you at the end of the day. FFXI is more thoughtful, slower: the type of movie that you might not be able to fully appreciate right away, and the type some of your friends might not be as likely to get into, but it sticks with you for a long time after the credits have finished rolling.

I will point out, though, that appreciation of 'classic' titles like FFXI often relies upon you experiencing them during their peak period of popularity. I think that's where the (wrongheaded) accusations of nostalgia come from. For example, I adore System Shock 2. Easily one of the best games ever made, and far superior to most horror games available today. Yet, despite the original System Shock being a similarly-amazing experience by all accounts, I simply can't get into it: the game is too antiquated, and I didn't grow up with it. I've played other games from that era, and I enjoy re-playing those, but trying to sink into a game I've never played that is roughly 25 years old just doesn't work. I have enough perspective to not call out people who praise the original System Shock, but a lot of people struggle to accept that something can be great if it doesn't feel great to them in that exact moment.

----------

One final note, to sort of summarize why I think FFXI is a better game: I think in 10-15 years, I won't really remember XIV at all. I think I'll still have FFXI up on its pedestal as the best MMO I've had the pleasure of experiencing. FFXIV has failed to imprint itself upon me the way truly great experiences do. I don't think this is entirely SE's fault - much like with the original Star Wars trilogy vs. the prequels, technological limitations of the time lent themselves to a far more durable and meaningful experience - but nevertheless, FFXIV is shallow. It's like a paper plate instead of good-quality dinnerware: it's convenient, but it's disposable, easily forgotten once its purpose is served. Only time will tell, I suppose. There's obviously a chance that FFXIV is imprinting itself on my psyche as we speak, and that over time, I'll come to find beauty in it that I can't see right now. But I seriously, seriously doubt it.

[Cidel]

Hmmm... Was FFXI a "better game?" As some have already pointed out, they are different enough to prefer one over the other. It's almost like asking someone to pick their favorite turn-based Final Fantasy game over their favorite action/adventure game; they have different appealing factors. I can't rightly call FFXI a better game, but I will say I enjoyed it more and got more satisfaction out of it.

The reasons I enjoyed it more over XIV can be highlighted in Dzian's post:

so much "yes"

and MicahZerrshia's:

also "yes"

But I will also not ignore that the game had obvious flaws that XIV tries to actively avoid, which Maeka did point out (even though I'm tempted to pick-apart that post and point-out all the over-exaggerations and fallacies):

some fair points

In my opinion, FFXIV seems to go out of its way to avoid doing what FFXI did as much as possible, for better or worse. I get it, a lot of gameplay that worked in that MMO over 10 years ago can not hold-up today. But if you ask me, I think they go overboard in design and gameplay decisions for XIV that not only totally avoid XI's design; they take it to the other end of the spectrum and it becomes a different kind of problem. Extreme horizontal progression becomes extreme vertical progression. Working towards something for months and months to upwards of a year becomes instant gratification. Having to form bonds with players server-side to accomplish your goals becomes seeing everyone in DF/PF as a brief "means to an end" that you can treat however you want because you'll probably never see them again. Added to the fact that like 75% of this game's "content" is designed with the DF in-mind.

I will say that XI is better in a sense that there was a lot of different endgame activities and content you could do to gear-up your character, and most of said content seen player activity for way longer than just a handful of months; which is more than can be said about XIV. Here in XIV it almost feels like new endgame content is only designed to hold interest for a few weeks, and that's even with weekly lockouts. Then by next patch the next new thing to run ad nauseam is introduced that almost effectively snuffs out the need to run the previous thing unless you were late to the party/want glamour from it. So far only PotD and, to a lesser extent, Eureka subverted that FATE fate of being largely dead after a month (That's probably the real reason they held back HoH and Pagos, otherwise Tsukuyomi EX would have been dead-on-arrival). The other things that don't die after just a month probably have lockouts on them where people could run it once, get what they want, and not touch it until next Tuesday.

So really, you have one that had a significant barrier of entry(IMO) that feels very rewarding versus the other that is incredibly accessible but ultimately shallow. Yet for some reason the middle-ground is largely untouched.