Why Eureka is a worse form of the Diadem IMO

[Asiragan]

To get inside Diadem your avg ilvl had to be ilvl 179 which normally would translate to all items 180 and 1 ring 179 or so as such you only pursued 180 as trash items or if you really wanted to min max 180 gear for some reasons, 3.1 unlocked also gordias normal which was giving 190 ilvl gear and required 170, in fact the whole game was locked behind the 170 ilvl barrier, what Diadem HAD to do was to set the barrier to 142 and allow you to skip the gearing up trough tomestones, there was no other way to unlock stuffs in game but tomestones or if you were rich crafted items, but a newly 60 wouldn't really be that rich.The low end gearing of Eureka is not as bad as you make it out to be, for startes the reward is on par with uncapped tomestones and then you have a somehwat quick way to cap weekly tomestones if you so wish, as such the reward structure is much better than diadem, it offers an alternative in the way the game works if you wish so.

Also Mageblack brings out another problem that diadem had and that Eureka resolved, if some1 dropped the party your farming was screwed because it could lead to not beign able to do enough dmg to receive validity to loot and wasting anyone time.

While I understand that what you say it's how you feel about the content compared to diadem, there are simply some aspects of it that really ARE much worse than Eureka, Eureka's problems are mostly lacking content in it, the foundation in it is better and shows some improvements, remember I enjoyed diadem during it's prime time and had good times, but I need to distance myself from that analyze the facts

For the sake of conversation, let's say that the rewards are better in Eureka than in Diadem (both are shitty tough because the gearing mechanics in this game is really not good) and that the access to Eureka is easier, which is true.


But the grind itself is probably one of the most stultifying things I saw in a game. Mindbless mobs, mindless NM, mindless progression. You follow the train like a sheep, participate in the fight or not, and you still get rewarded.

Sure, there's a better sens of community in there, but it just say how much solo-oriented FFXIV is in general. Getting raised, talking or riding with others is the most basics things in a MMO.
And outside of that, Eureka offer absolutely no teamplay, just the strength of the number by zerging trough the FATEs with no cohesion.

People can like it if they want. But Eureka is a pure failure in game design. And that just show how shitty Diadem was.

[Remedi]

All true, that's why I say that there's plenty of wrong in Eureka, my point is how you said that diadem really was that much worse and I think sometimes ppl don't really get how much worse it was

[Asiragan]

All true, that's why I say that there's plenty of wrong in Eureka, my point is how you said that diadem really was that much worse and I think sometimes ppl don't really get how much worse it was

You might be confusing me with someone else, since I said this, in my first post on the topic :

Of course, Eureka is better than the Diadem. But it's better in the sense that sleeping on the street is better than sleeping in the sewers ...

But overall, I agree with your post that said that the Diadem miss the point because of the reward system. And on this, Eureka is slightly better because you can gear alts with it. But this is exactly why there is a need for a better reward system, so that the devs can make more engaging content around it.

It won't be easy, but I really think it as to be done, somehow.

[KaldeaSahaline]

What a complete non sequitur. The equivocation you made between a video game and an illness that killed people is like comparing apples to a tire iron...

It's not that bad

That aside, i never said it was a "good" thing at all. Just pointing out what we can expect based off proven patterns of behavior from SE when developing this game. While I would like it to be otherwise I seriously doubt they will be changing their processes any time soon. If you "expected" more than that, thats a "you" problem.

Now if you would like my feelings on how the game "should" be, well, thats a whole different question you would need to ask. Another completely different question you could ask would be "what do you think about the status quo this game has crafted for itself."

Also....

So I am well aware that this game is stagnant and need a good injection of something to upset the status quo.

We're on the same team here. To clarify - I was asking if you personally (or anyone) thought it was a good idea to keep things the same. For instance, speaking strictly personally, I'm tired of so many different content forms because they offer no engagement, replayability, or reward.

Things like the relic are great, but I really hate the idea that relic can ONLY be acquired by mindless content. It really should have multiple pathways. I also disagree that my expectations that MAYBE just maybe they'd try something new were unreasonable though.

[MageBlack]

It's not that bad



We're on the same team here. To clarify - I was asking if you personally (or anyone) thought it was a good idea to keep things the same. For instance, speaking strictly personally, I'm tired of so many different content forms because they offer no engagement, replayability, or reward.

Things like the relic are great, but I really hate the idea that relic can ONLY be acquired by mindless content. It really should have multiple pathways. I also disagree that my expectations that MAYBE just maybe they'd try something new were unreasonable though.

Your not wrong for wanting or hoping for something to change. I just dont understand what could have led you to expect it to change. Until SE changes their position on appealing to the lowest common denominator and then drastically overhaul the the core concept of their armory system (homogenized jobs), and decide to really shake up their incentives (Gear with interesting stats/horizontal progression), then the shake up you are looking for cannot happen. The devs have painted themselves into a corner and the only way out would be the introduction of an expansion that brings the necessary groundwork for change.

I see this most when I think of new jobs. People want BLU, well, i'm terribly sorry but you will NOT get the BLU you want. The only time you will "capture a move from an enemy" will be in your class quests, you will do it once as a cutscene after the fight, then *poof* you have "Goblin Punch" which is now part of your base combo. There will not be any randomness to what moves you can get because all the combat needs to be predictable by the devs for ease of balancing. Same thing for BST, you will get a reskinned SMN. Because what kind of backlash do you think would happen when the new job queues and you "forgot" got capture "X" before the dungeon, now you are not functioning at capacity for the instance. Look at the Tank thread on the front page right now and thats something that tanks always have...

But I digress. I do have my gripes as well as my defenses for this game, most of my gripes are things that ultimately would need another Meteor to crash down and force the world to reset and I know that will never happen. This is the game we have and I should set my expectations accordingly, you seem intelligent enough to understand this. So, rather than ask for things I seriously doubt we will ever see, I look at the content as is and find ways to make it more interesting within the context of said content while knowing they most likely wont do it the way I envisioned.

Since 3.1 or.2 I realized this team has created a safe zone for content that they are afraid to step out of, almost every time they do, its a fail. LoV, Diadem 1 and 2, the whole Golden Saucer. Even when it is a success, because of the strong vertical progression they have, it just fades away. BCoB, Alex, PotD, Almost all dungeons from 2.X and 3.X, etc. I recall the dev team quoting "they made Alex normal so more people could experience the content and all the hard work from our dev team will be experienced by more people." But how much other content is now sitting in a database collecting dust?

Sorry, I got off on a tangent again.... ignore me...

[Remedi]

I , for one, hope that they'll implement the woken mechanic of ultimate to dungeons and raids as an achievement system or ulduar hard modes.
they said they have troibles to add those because they needed certain technology to achieve that and now e have it. so bring it on

[Tiaque]

Honestly, Eureka pisses me off. The thing is in 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 for relics, Yoshi wanted them to be hard to get, and Rare, and did a good job doing so for most of them, being as the "Difficulty" in it was the insane grind, but the thing is you had to know your class really damn well to Raid Tier level to make the process of getting a relic that much faster via doing speed runs for light, or for the tokens you needed to advance the step and so forth.

Eureka though? Any Idiot with a pulse can just spam one ability all day and night long in NM Train parties, and get their Relic after 5-9 days. Then faster after that for each additional one since 20 is reached.

For gods sakes, I seen tanks flat out die from not getting a single, friggen, heal, from their healers, even if their was like 3 or 4 of em in the party, cuz they are too busy just dpsing and not giving a damn. Then they wonder why the boss often goes out of control and shoves a Claw/Fang/Sword/Tail/Fireball/Poisoncloud/Mucus Spray/ice/thunderbolt etc up their ass one or two shotting them, then they proceed to make some snide dumb shit remark about it.

I hope the next chapter of Eureka does something to weed out most of these players, they do not deserve relic.

[Reynhart]

Eureka though? Any Idiot with a pulse can just spam one ability all day and night long in NM Train parties, and get their Relic after 5-9 days. Then faster after that for each additional one since 20 is reached.

The first 2 steps of Anima were :
- Grind some FATES to drop crystals
- Do some dungeons with several of them available unsynced

Any idiot with a pulse could do that. Let's wait for the next steps before judging the "difficulty" of the weapon.

[LalafellDown]

Don’t think SE knows how to spice things up. At least give us unique quirky things while we mindlessly kill the same thing for the 100th time. Give us potions or items like deep dungeon has. Let players transform into monster or grow in size. Who cares if the monsters die faster. Let us have fun SE T^T . No creativity whatsoever in Eureka. How is it different from the outside world? I’d rather do dungeon farming again then Eureka. It’s so boring.

[Nestama]

The first 2 steps of Anima were :
- Grind some FATES to drop crystals
- Do some dungeons with several of them available unsynced

And for the Atma-Animus step (leaving out the unfinished and Relic-Zenith steps since they were in the game on release)...
Atma: Farm low level FATE's in specific zones for X hours (days or weeks, depending on your luck)
Animus: Farm Tomestones of Myth to buy books, which then have you kill specific monsters, do dungeons (on that job and you need to be alive when the final boss is killed) and (wait hours for) FATEs.