Sentinal is a thorn in our sides

[Exni]

Yes, it is doable without Sentinel however, as he pointed out 'give one of your mages a heads up that you'll need a single Cure after Hellfire' This makes you a burden. You might not want to think it, be told it or consider it BUT asking another class to go out of their way or change what they are supposed to be doing (either Cure III/Curaga II bomb on the tank) is putting more strain on the whole party. So yes, it's doable without...but only because other people in the party cover for you. (PS, it costs a healer less mp to let you die and raise you...esp since another DD should raise you since the healer usually can't reach you as easily nor should they waste MP on you) And if you are playing as a mage...you pretty much DO need it...

...or wait until after patch 1.20 goes live

Actually it only takes one mage to toss a cure on the tank after hellfire, and that's if its needed (as he often starts jumping). Any of the other mages could get the heal off on the DD, or the DD could heal themselves (they shouldnt be taking any extra dmg right after Hellfire anyway). That's not what I'd consider a burden on the party. And no, a mage doesn't need it at all, in fact that's primarily what I was talking about.. I usually go as main heal, and haven't used Sentinel once. Too many wins to count.

[Kinseykinz]

Actually it only takes one mage to toss a cure on the tank after hellfire, and that's if its needed (as he often starts jumping). Any of the other mages could get the heal off on the DD, or the DD could heal themselves (they shouldnt be taking any extra dmg right after Hellfire anyway). That's not what I'd consider a burden on the party. And no, a mage doesn't need it at all, in fact that's primarily what I was talking about.. I usually go as main heal, and haven't used Sentinel once. Too many wins to count.

So in that case, go in as a whole party w/o Sentinel...even tank (since usually people use MRD tank, why require him to level GLA if no one else feels the need) ...oh and take people who've NEVER beat it before while you're at it. Since it's those with no experience in this battle you are telling 'eh, you don't need it.'

I've done this fight with plenty of people w/o Sentinel.... I ALWAYS have to cover for them and do more healing which means waste more MP than I would need to do if they just spent the time like most people did to level a class for an ability that is quite frankly, just useful to have overall. Not to mention forcing Mages to drop a lot of Cure Bombs can redistribute hate forcing them to have more Erruptions happen under them. (Which means Mage spends more time running, isn't near tank and can miss critical heals) Yes, we still could complete the fight without everyone having this ability, but it made things more difficult.

If I'm helping you, I don't want to work harder because you were lazy. Keep in mind, newer folks in the fight rely on Sentinel to get them out of other binds such as animation lag etc. It is actually easier to do battle w/o Sentinel once you have a couple wins WITH Sentinel under your belt as you will have the fight/battle mechanics down. Those asking 'Do I really need Sentinel' at this point are asking because the 1. Have tried the fight and haven't beaten it yet (IE sentinel could help make the difference for them) or 2. Haven't tried fight yet because they haven't had time/a class rank 50 etc. While this doesn't make them an untalented noob by any sense, there is a learning curve to this battle. Sentinel makes this learning curve easier. So yes, it IS still prudent to advise people new to this fight to spend the time and learn Sentinel.

Lastly, by taking people into the fight that lack sentinel, you are more or less saying you need 2+ (ideally 3) Mages....esp if one or more of the mages lack Sentinel. This is of course a viable strategy BUT more mages=less DD. Less DD means you are going to kill slower, which means you are wasting peoples time on a low drop reward/15 min. down time between each fight fight. So again, yeah plausable w/o Sentinel...and the more talented the players, the easier it is without sentinel but still easier with this one ability you can get between leves/parties/pling with friends in 3-14 days.

PS: none of this matters much anymore with new battle abilities/action bar setting coming out. But people saying 'Yeah you should learn Sentinel' aren't trying to be dicks...nor do we feel that the fight is 'unbeatable' without it. It just makes it THAT much easier, and in general is a very good ability to have.

[Technolust]

For the love of god... you don't need sentinel to beat Ifrit

[Molly_Millions]

For the love of god... you don't need sentinel to beat Ifrit

Shhh, don't tell anybody, but Sentinel is going away in a week.

[Krausus]

You guys talk as if sentinel is only good in Ifrit fight. I have sentinel and second wind II in the same spot on EVERY class. Even mages. Hell I use sentinel on mage classes as often as I use it on other classes. Sentinel is that "game breaking" ability that is useful in every battle. That's why it's so important. Afraid to pull hate with your curaga? Didn't think you could solo 5 lv 50+ mobs on THM at once? Sentinel GO.

Edit: I'm tryin to say you should want to get Sentinel not just for Ifrit but because really it is the best ability in the game and makes all fights easier for any class, solo or group.

^^^This I find myself using it on every class all the time now.

[Krausus]

Shhh, don't tell anybody, but Sentinel is going away in a week.

Maybe

*Temporarily reduces damage you sustain and increases enmity generated by actions executed while effect is active.*

could be something like Sentinel with the added enmity generation

[Molly_Millions]

Maybe

*Temporarily reduces damage you sustain and increases enmity generated by actions executed while effect is active.*

could be something like Sentinel with the added enmity generation

I dare your mages to increase their enmity right before they may need to toss an emergency curaga.

[Krausus]

I dare your mages to increase their enmity right before they may need to toss an emergency curaga.

everyone's hate will increase including the tanks, besides if your mages need to cast curaga then you are doing it wrong.

[Molly_Millions]

everyone's hate will increase including the tanks, besides if your mages need to cast curaga then you are doing it wrong.

You're assuming that everyone in the pt actually hits it and does so in time. Also, I didn't say they need to toss a curaga every time. I'm questioning how wise it would be to increase hate before you you might need to toss a curaga.

[Exni]

So in that case, go in as a whole party w/o Sentinel...even tank (since usually people use MRD tank, why require him to level GLA if no one else feels the need) ...oh and take people who've NEVER beat it before while you're at it. Since it's those with no experience in this battle you are telling 'eh, you don't need it.'

I've done this fight with plenty of people w/o Sentinel.... I ALWAYS have to cover for them and do more healing which means waste more MP than I would need to do if they just spent the time like most people did to level a class for an ability that is quite frankly, just useful to have overall. Not to mention forcing Mages to drop a lot of Cure Bombs can redistribute hate forcing them to have more Erruptions happen under them. (Which means Mage spends more time running, isn't near tank and can miss critical heals) Yes, we still could complete the fight without everyone having this ability, but it made things more difficult.

If I'm helping you, I don't want to work harder because you were lazy. Keep in mind, newer folks in the fight rely on Sentinel to get them out of other binds such as animation lag etc. It is actually easier to do battle w/o Sentinel once you have a couple wins WITH Sentinel under your belt as you will have the fight/battle mechanics down. Those asking 'Do I really need Sentinel' at this point are asking because the 1. Have tried the fight and haven't beaten it yet (IE sentinel could help make the difference for them) or 2. Haven't tried fight yet because they haven't had time/a class rank 50 etc. While this doesn't make them an untalented noob by any sense, there is a learning curve to this battle. Sentinel makes this learning curve easier. So yes, it IS still prudent to advise people new to this fight to spend the time and learn Sentinel.

Lastly, by taking people into the fight that lack sentinel, you are more or less saying you need 2+ (ideally 3) Mages....esp if one or more of the mages lack Sentinel. This is of course a viable strategy BUT more mages=less DD. Less DD means you are going to kill slower, which means you are wasting peoples time on a low drop reward/15 min. down time between each fight fight. So again, yeah plausable w/o Sentinel...and the more talented the players, the easier it is without sentinel but still easier with this one ability you can get between leves/parties/pling with friends in 3-14 days.

PS: none of this matters much anymore with new battle abilities/action bar setting coming out. But people saying 'Yeah you should learn Sentinel' aren't trying to be dicks...nor do we feel that the fight is 'unbeatable' without it. It just makes it THAT much easier, and in general is a very good ability to have.

Actually, I was telling any and everyone they don't need it. Not sure what your entire first paragraph has to do with anything I said, or the OP said for that matter..

If you are covering for your DD it has NOTHING to do w/ Sentinel, as your DD need to avoid taking dmg better. That actually is just a simple case of "Learn2Play". As I said before, I was once a noob to the fight as well and I NEVER used Sentinel.. if I can learn to regularly survive the encounter without dying once on both CNJ and LNC, then why couldn't other people? It has nothing to do with laziness, as I could have completed more content and leveled more classes than you have, and still not have/use Sentinel.. If anything, you could call it lazy to rely on a tanking cross-class ability that the Dev's are practically removing, that only takes a few hrs to grind to get... just to make it easy-mode. I have nothing against using Sentinel, but don't try to claim that we must be lazy because we don't need it..