Why Eureka is a worse form of the Diadem IMO

[KaldeaSahaline]

because the community can't handle challenging content, at least thats how I feel. Anything that IS hard, people complain about and it gets nerfed. It's sad, there is no sense of accomplishment when beating anything in this game except maybe savage content. Take the steps of faith for example.

Don't think in such a one dimensional manner. Eureka was plenty large enough and had potential to simultaneously possess derivative (i.e. nameless mob farming, trains, FATEs, NMs, etc.) and EX trial/savage party level content. It just requires they utilize an actual developer with creativity and not a part time unpaid intern.

This way, players like me can avoid the riff raff and fight monsters that fight back, and players who like to "relax" while doing battle content (seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever heard) can do derivative stuff. Rather than have to devote entire sets of resources to fitting a template you can give each content form additional depth, which it desperately needs.

I hear you, this is stage one of the relic, when has that ever been "engaging"?

This is true, but is it a good thing? I mean at one point in time people said this is Tuberculosis, when has that ever been cured?

The point is if we resolve ourselves to saying it was done this way for XYZ so it should continue to be this way; we open ourselves to a really stagnant environment, and not ironically - FF14 has been showing signs of that to educated individuals for a while now.

You know what scares me?

SE adding near infinite grind Merit levels. To give players a way of non-stop progression, that would award bonus stats and modifiers that would give diminishing returns as ya pump more points into it, kinda like ESO's CP system, just so casual players or low skilled players will have a way to brute force any wall they wanna bypass, like Savage content.

Do you even participate in EX Trials/Savage? Your post implies that you don't know what you're talking about. Not only is what you're suggesting really unlikely to happen, but it wouldn't even accomplish what you referenced. You're not going to just magically brute force savage with more stats. You'd know this if you tried it.

[MageBlack]

This is true, but is it a good thing? I mean at one point in time people said this is Tuberculosis, when has that ever been cured?

The point is if we resolve ourselves to saying it was done this way for XYZ so it should continue to be this way; we open ourselves to a really stagnant environment, and not ironically - FF14 has been showing signs of that to educated individuals for a while now.

What a complete non sequitur. The equivocation you made between a video game and an illness that killed people is like comparing apples to a tire iron...

That aside, i never said it was a "good" thing at all. Just pointing out what we can expect based off proven patterns of behavior from SE when developing this game. While I would like it to be otherwise I seriously doubt they will be changing their processes any time soon. If you "expected" more than that, thats a "you" problem.

Now if you would like my feelings on how the game "should" be, well, thats a whole different question you would need to ask. Another completely different question you could ask would be "what do you think about the status quo this game has crafted for itself."

Also....

But there I go again, "it will be better next patch". Been saying that since about 3.1

So I am well aware that this game is stagnant and need a good injection of something to upset the status quo.

[Remedi]

Since we are really doing this I want just to point out something that is irking me that ppl seems to have missed on the original diadem.

Diadem was intented to be a place where you could gear up via Rng loots by killing enemies over and over, the random aspects of appearances and stats was the incentive that was meant to play on the replayability of the content and the abuility of getting gears with 3 stats capped was to be a sort of horizzontal progression for everyone.

Now just one tiny itty bit problem withat, the entry ilvl for the place was 175........
Why that is a problem you ask? Well when your bronze level gear is 150 and your silver is 180 it means that you invalidate 2 tier of rewards as a barrier to enter, which essentially left 210 ilvl gear as the real only sought after gear worth, which the moment they nerfed their drop rate spelt the end of the place.

Add to that the split in 3 "difficulty" of the zone which essentially split the community for no reason and the inability of entering alone (as in totally alone and free of doing w/e I want) and you possibly have the worst designed content ever.

I don't understand how few ppl don't see this, because if the barrier to enter diadem was 142 (ARF ilvl barrier) I can garantee that the zone would've fared much better, simply because it could've been an option over tomestone farming.
I just don't know how this is beign ignored, it's how you DON'T create a loot based content, games like Diablo are fun at the start because you get loot quickly at the start until you run at the end game where you need certain pieces, SE screwed that badly by essentially asking to come with essentially already end game loots, like you start D3, POE or any other loot game with a full set and you only need rare pieces to get it done.
Really............ for who was Diadem exactly? It wasn't for gearing new ppl up since you had to have essentially all 180 pieces and few 170 items to get inside, gatherers could get some mats yes, but most unique intems in there were worthless till they added relics and , so ye probably the worst piece of content I've ever seen and I enjoyed farming on it , since well.... I like to kill things, but ye bad implementation overall

[NessaWyvern]

Really............ for who was Diadem exactly? It wasn't for gearing new ppl up since you had to have essentially all 180 pieces and few 170 items to get inside, gatherers could get some mats yes, but most unique intems in there were worthless till they added relics and , so ye probably the worst piece of content I've ever seen and I enjoyed farming on it , since well.... I like to kill things, but ye bad implementation overall

They were more for the kinda end-game gearers, who wanted to min-max, as the stats on gear in diadem had different weights, often better than other gear of the same ilvl. Some had such high stats that it was ridiculous, my FC would call those ones the "God Tier".

IIRC the weapon that was brought out in diadem 2.0 had a higher ilvl than the relic at the time.
Also, back in the day, when pvp still had stat weights, diadem gear synced better (after they fixed it), than all other gear in the game. As a pvper, I got a lot of use out of that gear at the time. (Sync was 150 for pvp back then, so I could even use the lowest ilvl for min-maxing in pvp).

With the low ilvl gear, you could trade it in for spoils if you didn't need it to buy the mount and crafting items.
I made millions selling the Dryad Sap from there :P

[Pingosteel]

do you imagine this changing on any fight that has no realistic player limit? if you do, how?

-Transform x% of the players that participate in the FATE into something (a fairy, a cactuar, whatever) , give them 1 or 2 skill to stop the boss to do a paralysing attack?
-Spawn bombs to carry under the boss
-Give debuff that can invert control/ force you to move over a zone that get rid of the debuff/ ...
- 2 or more boss that switch elements between them and if you it them with a wrong one you get a reflect
- special(s) skill(s) like the fight with lakshmi to resist a particular attack / boost your damage/ ... (you get the skill while in the FATE zone)

This is only a few things that I found under 10 minutes of thinking about it.

And I am certain that I can find some more if I cared enough...

[NessaWyvern]

-snip-

The diadem mini-raid made it so certain parties had to go through certain portals to tank and kill certain mobs, and people found it hard enough to do that

[Bourne_Endeavor]

because the community can't handle challenging content, at least thats how I feel. Anything that IS hard, people complain about and it gets nerfed. It's sad, there is no sense of accomplishment when beating anything in this game except maybe savage content. Take the steps of faith for example.

Do you know why they continuously complain? Because it works. Whenever people whine over things being too difficult or unfair, SE has primarily caved. Therefore, why wouldn't they keep complaining? On the few instances SE didn't back down ala Weeping City or Shinryu, people eventually pushed through. The community can easily handle something above the level of braindead but the devs have been long afraid to actually try making things even moderately difficult outside Savage. Even EX Primals have suffered, albeit Shinryu at least makes an argument this expansion.

Frankly speaking though, Steps of Faith was simply a poorly designed fight. Two people were essentially told "don't play your job and shoot stuff with cannons instead." And if you missed one shot of the dragon harpoon, you lost. Oh, but you still had to wait 10-15 minutes for the "You Failed" message to reset the instance. What happened is veteran players bailed en masse because there existed no incentive whatsoever for them to put up with the numerous mistakes or lengthily encounter even with a somewhat decent party.

[Remedi]

They were more for the kinda end-game gearers, who wanted to min-max, as the stats on gear in diadem had different weights, often better than other gear of the same ilvl. Some had such high stats that it was ridiculous, my FC would call those ones the "God Tier".

IIRC the weapon that was brought out in diadem 2.0 had a higher ilvl than the relic at the time.
Also, back in the day, when pvp still had stat weights, diadem gear synced better (after they fixed it), than all other gear in the game. As a pvper, I got a lot of use out of that gear at the time. (Sync was 150 for pvp back then, so I could even use the lowest ilvl for min-maxing in pvp).

With the low ilvl gear, you could trade it in for spoils if you didn't need it to buy the mount and crafting items.
I made millions selling the Dryad Sap from there :P

It would've been fine it those were the points SE used to advertise the zone, yet they advertised it as a zone where you could group up and farm gear, it's nice that raiders had the possibility of min-maxing, but in the gordias raid enviroment it break the game for some.
Also you mention dryad sap, but I'm sorry to say that ppl were making millions with those since 3.05 when they were added to the game 4 months prior or so. The recipes introduced with diadem were completely useless bar glamouring because they had the great foresight of making them non overmeldable as in the only reason anyone cares fro crafted gear in the first place.

I'm sorry but this basic faults are too much to pass on, Eureka has many faults but at least for a new levelled player IT WORKS

[NessaWyvern]

They have stated that for pagos, that they won't be introducing any new steps for the relic armour, only the relic weapon, meaning that relic armour during pagos would just be glamour at that stage, since you can get better gear with tomes. Or run sigmascape NM for the same ilvl gear. I think they are dropping the ball on that one.

[Remedi]

They have stated that for pagos, that they won't be introducing any new steps for the relic armour, only the relic weapon, meaning that relic armour during pagos would just be glamour at that stage, since you can get better gear with tomes. Or run sigmascape NM for the same ilvl gear. I think they are dropping the ball on that one.

You and I agree on that one, as said there are plenty of wrongs on Eureka, it's simply I cannot pass on the basic game design flaws that diadem had