Are the developers of XIV out of touch?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I swear every single excuse with them is "oh this is too hard" or "oh the old code won't work with this".

They can't just keep using these same excuses for everything players want, yet keep charging us for every other mount and glamour that comes out.

If they keep up with this, with the same excuse that any upgrades/changes to the system or characters is impossible...well it'll be interesting to see where this game is a few years from now.

[Penthea]

I swear every single excuse with them is "oh this is too hard" or "oh the old code won't work with this".

They can't just keep using these same excuses for everything players want.

I think these problems SE often refer to are far more common than most here seem to think.

The majority of mmo dev teams are pretty damn silent compared to SE. SE actually directly address things players say and ask for several times a year, with most mmo dev teams you're lucky if it's even once. I think it's very naive to think that it's only SE who experience frequent limitations due to an older engine or server capability.

There are features in WoW that didn't make it to the game until after several years of players asking. Do people really think each time it was Blizzard forgetting the community existed? That not even once they had to put off some updates because the engine or the servers at the time couldn't handle it? The game even has a history of getting ahead of its own engine. The end boss of one of the expansions had several phases with separate hp pools because the combined hp pool literally could not exist in the game. With all their resources and experience they still clearly experience limitations like SE do, the difference is they rarely openly admit it. So the conversation players tend to have is "Blizzard don't read feedback" and not "Blizzard keep giving us the same excuses".

I know it's tiresome to get the same answers over and over. Trust me I too would love to hear an answer other than "server/engine limitations". I would even prefer to hear about a different limitation. It is especially annoying when it's a long time frequently requested feature. But this idea that only SE have these excuses or reasons is incredibly incorrect. It just appears so because most dev teams abstain from commenting about limitations until after they have conquered them and have the new features ready. So the focus is on being able to experience the new feature and not why they can't have it.

[KaldeaSahaline]

The majority of mmo dev teams are pretty damn silent compared to SE. SE actually directly address things players say and ask for several times a year, with most mmo dev teams you're lucky if it's even once. I think it's very naive to think that it's only SE who experience frequent limitations due to an older engine or server capability.

You're white knighting. I hate to use that term, but you're irrationally defending something and citing blatant misinformation to do it. You're letting bias and ignorance shape your perception of what is acceptable.

1) No, other dev teams are not silent. WoW devs literally post almost daily about class changes, systems changes, etc. They even have Q&As (that still suck, but suck considerably less than SE's softball garbage) fairly frequently. Did you even verify that claim before making it? Blizz runs into technical problems like anyone else. They also clearly articulate when they are a problem (they've shared the digit stuff before, as well as issues with the backpack inventory and many other technical woes they've encountered). They've talked about technical troubles with loot, CRZ, and many others. Instead of frequently citing it as an excuse though, they fix it. Give credit where credit is due.

2) I can go even further. B&S has Johnathan Lien, the producer frequently answering players tweets as well as doing Q&A's fairly frequently. You can argue he isn't a dev (because technically he isn't Korea has the devs), but he like Yoshi is the face of the game in the west. Hell, they're even porting the ENTIRE GAME over to UE4 because UE3 was holding the game back due to feedback in the west and the back and forth between the producer and the community.

3) Even the awfulness that Bless Online is has Dev's constantly engaging the community (despite being miserable at it). These are just the ones I personally know about off the top of my head. I'm almost positive there are more.

There are features in WoW that didn't make it to the game until after several years of players asking. The game even has a history of getting ahead of its own engine. The end boss of one of the expansions had several phases with separate hp pools because the combined hp pool literally could not exist in the game. With all their resources and experience they still clearly experience limitations like SE do, the difference is they rarely openly admit it.

See above - this is also false. They admit to stuff like this all the time.

[Penthea]

See above - this is also false. They admit to stuff like this all the time.

Then this is new. This was not my experience of Blizzard in my ten years of WoW before I quit.

My point still stands though. SE aren't the only ones to experience limitations due to servers and game engines. Literally any dev team making an online game do. But somehow knowing this means I'm white knighting, okay.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Then this is new. This was not my experience of Blizzard in my ten years of WoW before I quit.

My point still stands though. SE aren't the only ones to experience limitations due to servers and game engines. Literally any dev team making an online game do. But somehow knowing this means I'm white knighting, okay.

What made it white knighting was you irrationally justifying that somehow SE is really good at communicating and everyone else wasn't, without actually putting an iota of effort into verifying whether your statement was true or not. That's something a zealot does, not a rational individual would do. If Yoshi P popped in every single day and answered feedback with please look forward to it, or limitations, etc. half the community would praise him as a god because he talked to them instead of judging him on what is said. Granted the language barrier is a pretty huge issue and very likely contributes to the lack of quality responses.

Your point does not stand though. You said: "The majority of mmo dev teams are pretty damn silent compared to SE. SE actually directly address things players say and ask for several times a year, with most mmo dev teams you're lucky if it's even once. I think it's very naive to think that it's only SE who experience frequent limitations due to an older engine or server capability."

1) Your first sentence is factually inaccurate as I demonstrated.

2) Your second sentence is a little more nuanced in that you said SE actually addresses things. While it's true they do respond, I don't consider "please look forward to it" or "limitations" as addressing anything.

3) Your last sentence is flawed. It's not that other game companies don't experience these things. It's that they don't use it overwhelmingly like SE does.

[Penthea]

What made it white knighting was you irrationally justifying that somehow SE is really good at communicating and everyone else wasn't

I didn't say SE were better at communicating. Doing more communication doesn't automatically mean said communication is actually good. You can say a lot without saying anything new or useful at all. As was aptly demonstrated by the latest live letter, personally I found a lot of it was mere repetition and too many questions had the same answers.

I was simply stating that SE are often more likely to, for whatever reason, plainly say when they are unable to do something. Whereas many other dev teams often tend to keep that fact to themselves until after they have actually addressed it and have the content that was once impossible to do actually available to players. The timing of when you reveal the obstacles has great impact in how players respond to it and even remember it.

And I was also trying to dispel this myth some people believe that SE experience an outstanding epidemic of server and engine limitations compared to other mmos when the truth is all dev teams experience them daily. It just so happens SE openly mention theirs very very often.

And to dispel this idea that I'm a white knight. I found that the whole greed only mess was definitely an example of SE not being in touch with their playerbase. I think that having to pay for extra storage when we already pay for a sub is a disgrace. SE seriously lacked foresight in limiting how many cash shop items can be account wide, it's not as if they couldn't see examples of this done better in other games. I find the glamour system awkward as hell and glamour plates only make it bearable now. The housing system is far better than before but is yet another example of a severe lack of foresight. I feel the new pvp system stripped down classes far too much. SE's attempts to lessen the congestion on Balmung were laughably far too late by several years. I could go on.

I adore the game but I sure as hell don't think it's perfect, and I sure as hell am not some white knight. I am just not quick to act as if I'm under the impression that only SE experience the shackles of engine and server limitations.

[Vhailor]

I adore the game but I sure as hell don't think it's perfect, and I sure as hell am not some white knight. I am just not quick to act as if I'm under the impression that only SE experience the shackles of engine and server limitations.

One thing from my perspective is that I very much feel as if, for SE, server limitations are a barrier that often gets magically resolved by paying more money or doing things that are otherwise-profitable for SE. That's frustrating to me as a player, and it's largely why I'm so quick to trigger.

For example, storage space and a proper Retainer management system are two problems that are very difficult to resolve for X Y and Z but... pay us $5/mo for a mobile app that we're releasing soon, and voila! All fixed! Getting annoyed at the horrible slog we created with 2.x content? We feel you, but really, it's just too much work to redesign it - so we'll sell you a Jump Potion instead. Want a functioning data center, EU? Well, that's why we need things like the Mog Station... the subscriptions just aren't enough. Want to be able to access those items in an unsubbed Retainer? Well, yeah, we keep records of them anyway - but unless you renew your $2/mo ripoff fee, no access for you.

Obviously I understand that SE is a company, and the goal of a company is to make money, but they've got to work on their game face in terms of PR. It's not a good idea to claim issues are difficult / impossible to resolve, and then turn around and solve them down the road but lock the solution behind a paywall. That says you're being cheap, not that you're struggling to solve traditional and normal MMO-related technical challenges. I can sympathize with the tech side - it's difficult. But it feels like they just don't care to try unless we pad their pockets beyond the huge amounts of money FFXIV is already bringing in.

[Berethos]

Hell, they're even porting the ENTIRE GAME over to UE4 because UE3 was holding the game back due to feedback in the west and the back and forth between the producer and the community.

A commendable effort...

But one that sounds significantly less impressive when you consider that it's from one version of the game's engine to a new version of the same engine, and much/most (and possibly all) of the work actually developing that engine was done by an entirely different company.