Why Eureka is a worse form of the Diadem IMO

[Reynhart]

A video game can't be resumed to "It's basically a group that kill a big monster".

A video game as a whole can't. But Hunts can, yet people praise it above FATES while it's basically the same.

It's normal to think that if the game rewards you, then you are doing the right thing, right?

If you AFK during a 24-man raid and the alliance still beat it without kicking you, would you say you're doing the raid right ?
If you're doing a poor job and are rewarded poorly, it doesn't mean you couldn't do it great and be rewarded greatly.
But I guess some people are ok with mediocrity.

It's always easy to say that people are at fault but, and I'll say it again, it's mostly because they are lured by bad game design to begin with.

It's because people are sheep. Even if you tell and show them that there's a better way, they won't believe you because they heard someone saying someone else that the train is the only way to play Eureka.

[KaldeaSahaline]

There's actually no difference between NM, FATES and Hunts. It's basically group to kill a big monster. I really can't understand this FATE hate...do people really expect not having to kill monsters in an FF game ?

Speaking personally - I hate FATEs because they're boring. They're not deep. They're not engaging, nor are they fun. So any content designed around being mindless, trivial, or boring, I avoid. Hunts and NM fall into this category as well. (again for me personally).

If you AFK during a 24-man raid and the alliance still beat it without kicking you, would you say you're doing the raid right ?
If you're doing a poor job and are rewarded poorly, it doesn't mean you couldn't do it great and be rewarded greatly.
But I guess some people are ok with mediocrity.

One problem with this statement, is whether I AFK and hit Scatter over and over again, or top DPS, I still get the same reward.

There are 24 man raids I join where I am top DPS as a tank. To offset this one time for science I went into a 24 man on my RDM. I simply cast Scatter over and over. I did AWFUL DPS, but no one called me out. No one kicked me, and I got plenty of loot. I genuinely felt bad about it.

The same reward for approximately 8% of the effort. Sounds like good design to me. /s.

I think they're both equally bad since they boil down to fate grinding & afking. Had the relics + dyeable AF sets not been held hostage by Eureka it would be as dead as Diadem.

Bingo. I would bet my annual salary on it that's how confident I am in that statement.

[Asiragan]

A video game as a whole can't. But Hunts can, yet people praise it above FATES while it's basically the same.

I don't like hunt in FFXIV either. But they does give better rewards than FATEs. On the open world, FATEs are just for leveling while waiting for you dungeon to proc. Aside for Ixion and Outfoxed at the start of the expansion (they where pretty popular at that time if I remember well), but outside of those, FATEs are just useless once you reach lvl 70.

Plus, it doesn't prevent the dev' to put depth to the hunt and/or the FATEs system. And both of them feels more dull than deep. Hence my contempt towards Eureka.

If you AFK during a 24-man raid and the alliance still beat it without kicking you, would you say you're doing the raid right ?
If you're doing a poor job and are rewarded poorly, it doesn't mean you couldn't do it great and be rewarded greatly.

Don't put words in my mouth, especially when you completely miss my point.

Honestly, I never saw someone being AFK for the whole raid without being kicked. Especially if that person wake up just to roll the dices on the loot. If people can't, or don't want to, kick someone like that, then they just agree to this attitude. The other players are expected to regulate the people with bad attitude during dungeons/raid. (And make a GM call when it's getting extreme).
And yes, if someone play poorly, he get the same chance to roll the loot as the others. I'm not saying that it's fine, but you just can't control something like that without tools like a parser in the game.

But my point was that you shouldn't get reward for not playing the game. It's dumb. Period.

It's because people are sheep. Even if you tell and show them that there's a better way, they won't believe you because they heard someone saying someone else that the train is the only way to play Eureka.

Then again you are making a really poor job of an argumentation. People are sheep? That's supposed to prove your point that Eureka is great?

No, I'm telling you, people are most than willing to play and learn rules of a game with good game design. But the game design of Eureka is pure garbage, so people will just go and do what will give them the better ratio of effort/ reward : AFKing during FATEs.
Sure, that's probably not the most efficient way around. But that's the one that will allows you to make your relic while watching a TV show.

But I guess some people are ok with mediocrity.

Well, I guess some people like Eureka.

It's their tastes and I can respect that, even if I do not understand it.


But to me, mediocrity is not acceptable. Whether it's from me, and even more so from a firm that failed twice before Eureka and didn't seems to learn anything at all from this failure.

And I think that people were right to expect great things from Eureka, hoping that S.E. did learn from the past mistakes.




Also, you should read my posts again. You are only picking bits that you think will give you an edge on the subject at hand, and then give really poor example or argumentation to prove whatever your point is.

I gave you example of games that, in my opinion, did things right. You are not only completely avoiding those example, you are also completely twisting my post to conform your argumentation at proving me wrong. It's dishonest.

[Reynhart]

One problem with this statement, is whether I AFK and hit Scatter over and over again, or top DPS, I still get the same reward.

In Eureka, if you AFK for most of the time or if you actively participate in targeting appropriate monsters, you get a very different reward. So, it should encourage people to do a little more effort.

Don't put words in my mouth, especially when you completely miss my point.

Problem is, you exactly said "I got reward, so I'm doing good" in a game that chose to not punish players but simply offers better reward if you do better. Because if the game punished you, then people would whine endlessly that "it's too haaard".

I gave you example of games that, in my opinion, did things right.

Examples that have absolutely no chance of being copied in this game. Seriously, anything remotely challenging is nerfed to the ground, do you really expect XIV taking inspiration from MH or Dark Soul ? Especially for the relic stuff, which we fully known would be tied to Eureka and fully known that it wouldn't involve challenging content.