Why are Statics so difficult sometimes?

[Lambdafish]

I mena, ffs look at these answers. What kind of videogame or endgame is it where the best advice is NOT to do it with friends or guildmates?

What kind of videogame? Team based videogames. Period. If you are serious in any kind of esports or PVP game, it is exactly the same. I disagree about not raiding with friends, but the idea of managing a static is the same as managing a group of people anywhere, and that comes with consequence sometimes.

Ultimately we aren't talking about the game, so get the idea that this is fault of savage out of your head, because many people (clearly not you) find savage very fun. This is about people management, plain and simple.

[HyoMinPark]

Savage isn't fun for most people, and rather than tell you straight out it isn't fun and leave, they make excuses until it blows up.

I mena, ffs look at these answers. What kind of videogame or endgame is it where the best advice is NOT to do it with friends or guildmates?

It’s not so much people saying “Don’t raid with FC mates/friends/significant others”, as it’s people saying “In the event that you do, make sure that you are able to have a stern hand with them”, I think—so as that, if they start causing drama, you have the guts to put a stop to it rather than “let it go because they’re your FC mate/friend/significant other”. Many a times static leaders let their FC mate/friend/SO stomp all over them and dictate the static, and it causes friction in the static because of that.

I prefer to raid with friends myself as opposed to strangers. It makes the content more fun. But there have to be checks and balances in place so that friendships do not negatively impact the way the static runs.


As for the “Savage isn’t fun for most people”, we have already agreed to disagree on this, because I think what is fun is subjective. If we’re speaking with regards to the amount of the playerbase that does Savage, then yes, you could probably infer that Savage isn’t fun for most people. But I think for the majority of people that do run Savage enjoy the content. Otherwise, why would they do it?

[Nezerius]

I mena, ffs look at these answers. What kind of videogame or endgame is it where the best advice is NOT to do it with friends or guildmates?

If that's how you took all the previous posts, then I'm not sure if you've read them at all.

They're saying that it's dependent on the player's goals. Is a player's goal is to clear savage content as quickly as possible, and their friends have those same goals? Great! Do their friends have a more casual look on the game? Probably not wise to raid savage with them, unless they're okay with reaching their goal at a slower pace or not at all.

[RiyahArp]

What kind of videogame? Team based videogames. Period. If you are serious in any kind of esports or PVP game, it is exactly the same.

The game is what causes it. If they liked Savage, why would they make excuses to skip it? You can't manage people into doing something they dislike. The way these team-based, high skill games are wind up being very unlikable for a lot of people. I saw it on overwatch...people try and do it, find they are miserable, and ditch competitive or the game entirely. I think it's fair to be annoyed at the games some, and I'd kind of point out battle royale has become popular as a counterreaction to them.

If that's how you took all the previous posts, then I'm not sure if you've read them at all.

They're saying that it's dependent on the player's goals. Is a player's goal is to clear savage content quickly as possible, and their friends have those same goals? Great! Do their friends have a more casual look on the game? Probably not wise to raid savage with them, unless they're okay with reaching their goal at a slower pace or not at all.

You know, if a game kind of forces that kind of separation, i don't think it's good. The fact that you have to weigh your friends compared to getting completion of four fights that have a shelf life of one year tops i don't think is good design. I think this is why old-school raid design was pretty low on the skill component and higher on the time one, so you weren't forced to weigh your goals as much.

It’s not so much people saying “Don’t raid with FC mates/friends/significant others”, as it’s people saying “In the event that you do, make sure that you are able to have a stern hand with them”, I think—so as that, if they start causing drama, you have the guts to put a stop to it rather than “let it go because they’re your FC mate/friend/significant other”. Many a times static leaders let their FC mate/friend/SO stomp all over them and dictate the static, and it causes friction in the static because of that.

I prefer to raid with friends myself as opposed to strangers. It makes the content more fun. But there have to be checks and balances in place so that friendships do not negatively impact the way the static runs.


As for the “Savage isn’t fun for most people”, we have already agreed to disagree on this, because I think what is fun is subjective. If we’re speaking with regards to the amount of the playerbase that does Savage, then yes, you could probably infer that Savage isn’t fun for most people. But I think for the majority of people that do run Savage enjoy the content. Otherwise, why would they do it?

Because the static is so important that you need to take a stern hand with your friend, possibly to the point of kicking them, otherwise clearing this fight will be impossible. The whole skill threshold for this and organizational threshhold is so high, comparable to certain types of raiding, that you have to manage your friends as if they are working with you. In other mmos, it exists, but it seems to be much harsher here, comparable to the aforementioned pvp games.

I think this kind of game transforms the relationship badly, and players for some reason kind of default to "it's the players fault" in the sense that the static is more important or the goal is. The op is surprised that people are the way they are, but I always wonder why no one ever looks at the game itself.

Oh as for fun, eh.I meant it in the population sense, which affects the OP who recruited from his FC. If someone gives an excuse not to do something, there really are just two options if it isnt legit. They don't like it, or they don't like you. My bet is on the former, because usually, people who organize are pretty nice.

[TyrTry]

Honestly, you have to bear some partial blame for that, unfortunately. Like any kind of management that deals with looking after a group of people, static management can be stressful, difficult and out of control sometimes. Confrontations could have been dealt with better, problematic behavior dealt with responsibly, strictly, and privately, and ground rules made absolutely clear.

Completely agree. I've been trying to find other ways to communicate known issues and so far, things have been running more smoothly. The sad thing is, I have tried pretty much everything you've mentioned in the past, and the outcome was still the same. I've learned that sometimes, people really don't want to hear what you have to say, and they (like myself) need to search elsewhere.

[Penthea]

I don't really believe the "don't ever raid with your SO/friends" because everyone is different. I raid with my boyfriend and our friends. We know the difference between the raid/fc leaders talking and the boy/girlfriend and friend talking. In the past when I have had to confront a member about an issue I simply said to them "right I'm going to put my fc leader hat on now and talk to you about something that needs to change". If I need to get serious, I make it clear that it's me as a leader upholding my responsibility not me trying to shake up our personal relationship. If they see it as the same thing, then frankly they're not mature enough to raid.

A lot of what I learned about leading is from watching others in the past doing it wrong. I stayed in some guilds for years so I could see the long term effects of bad leadership. The most common mistake was not being consistent with rules. It was obvious some were allowed to bend and break them more than others, and often months would pass before it got dealt with, if it ever did. Too much tolerance is another common thing. It simply doesn't work to wait until a problem is huge before dealing with it. Doing that just lands you with a horrendous and maybe even impossible mess to tidy. I can't even begin to count how many times I have watched too much tolerance result in several people leaving. One of the most important things I have learned is that you can't please everyone, and if you try to most times you end up pleasing no one at all.

My static hasn't had the epidemic of problems OP has, but we did have a member of the raid team who was often late. We eventually had to kick them from the team, but we made it clear that our issue with them was purely related to raiding, so they were allowed to remain in the fc. Aside from their tardiness they were an otherwise pleasant person.

[TyrTry]

You know, if a game kind of forces that kind of separation, i don't think it's good. The fact that you have to weigh your friends compared to getting completion of four fights that have a shelf life of one year tops i don't think is good design. I think this is why old-school raid design was pretty low on the skill component and higher on the time one, so you weren't forced to weigh your goals as much.

No. A game should never separate a good friendship (look at Mario Party), that is why I would ask each member if they truly desired to do this. When they all agreed "yes," I took them at the word (this processed happened more than once mind you). I do believe that if you say you are committed to something, then you should be committed, or at least speak your mind and say "I can't do this." Don't be afraid to walk away, it's better than constant silence.

[Sigma-Astra]

I like to think that sometimes you have to treat statics like you're managing yourself with a bunch of co-workers, and in a sense you are, even if you're raiding with known friends and FC members instead of complete strangers. You kind of have to treat raiding like running a business, at least, especially if you're the type who wants quick and painless progression mostly. If someone is being extremely detrimental towards the group's progress or refuses to improve, then the leader has to make some hard-pressed decisions about whether it's a good idea or not to keep that person on the team, even if they may be your friend or SO. If bad behavior and dissension within the ranks start, then it's usually the leader or co-leader's job to nip it in the bud before it grows into something larger, however, I am also of a firm mind and belief that the responsibility of a healthy static doesn't just lie with the sole leader, but everyone that is part of the group. It shouldn't always be one person's job alone, it should be everyone's. People should speak freely when there's a problem, admit to faults, and help their teammates since by helping your co-players, you're helping the overall group entirely.

If you have a much more lax or casual pace that's the general overall mentality, then it's usually not so bad. If people can freely admit and own up towards mistakes and work in making less of them, it tends to makes things easier too, of course. I think keeping hold of a firm static is much easier when most of your team members are all bearing the same goals in mind and general attitude as well as pacing. My static isn't that highly competitive, so we're not looking to clear things in record timing, we just want to show that we can do these things while having a good time at the same time. We're all close or at least plausibly near the same ages, but we have some people who live in New Zealand and we shift things to make it easier on their timezone as well as our own. It's all about finding people who will accommodate your needs, respect them, and then you doing the same in return.

The first foundation towards a good a static I think, is finding like-minded people and building a foundation of acceptance and trust first without the stress of "winning" anything first and being able to lift each other up when things go south and help each other inside Savage content and outside. My static runs maps and farms and other stuff together all of the time, so we're building relationships not through Savage entirely.

Running and getting anything out of Savage is just a bonus strawberry on top of the shortcake. Hell, one of my static members gave me the motivation to finish Kugane Tower after I told her I failed at it like 5 times. I don't think I would have went back to the tower if it wasn't for her.

[RiyahArp]

When they all agreed "yes," I took them at the word (this processed happened more than once mind you).

Yeah, people try to spare people's feelings, but it ends up bad. And they can be committed to trying, and then start to resent it. But..well you know, if you see them start skipping, they are saying something with their actions. Not many people say "I hate my job!" to their boss, but you can tell from what they do at least something is up.

but then that means you kind of have to force the issue, and ehh. idk why we need to make games into work so much.

[Alaray]

Because the static is so important that you need to take a stern hand with your friend, possibly to the point of kicking them, otherwise clearing this fight will be impossible. The whole skill threshold for this and organizational threshhold is so high, comparable to certain types of raiding, that you have to manage your friends as if they are working with you. In other mmos, it exists, but it seems to be much harsher here, comparable to the aforementioned pvp games.

I feel like in the event this causes a break of friendship, unless one party was particularly rude to the other, then it was a weak friendship to begin with.

Had I not been able to perform well on these fights, or learn them, or understand them, or execute them, I wouldn't want to stay in a static even if it's full of my friends. I'd rather excuse myself, understand I wasn't in line with the goal of the group, or the challenge of the content they wanted to do, and proceeded to follow their progress while remaining friends with them. I accepted the possibility the moment I signed up, and I was absolutely ready to own that possibility if it was the way things ultimately went. It'd suck, it'd probably be a confidence hit, but at the end of the day I'd be able to see from their perspective and understand the necessity. I'm very grateful it didn't play out that way and we've all been able to stick together and down things, but again, I was prepared to own it if I was holding the group back and leave the group from day 1.

I've known others who were asked to leave, or left a static, of their own accord because they felt/or knew that their performance was hindering the group as a whole. Yet, they remain friends.

You can remain friends. All it takes is a few ounces of maturity from your friends to understand the situation and respectfully speak to you through things. If they are unwilling to respect you, or the rest of the party, then I don't think they were valuable friends in the first place.