Why are Statics so difficult sometimes?

[HyoMinPark]

Savage isn't fun for most people, and rather than tell you straight out it isn't fun and leave, they make excuses until it blows up.

I mena, ffs look at these answers. What kind of videogame or endgame is it where the best advice is NOT to do it with friends or guildmates?

It’s not so much people saying “Don’t raid with FC mates/friends/significant others”, as it’s people saying “In the event that you do, make sure that you are able to have a stern hand with them”, I think—so as that, if they start causing drama, you have the guts to put a stop to it rather than “let it go because they’re your FC mate/friend/significant other”. Many a times static leaders let their FC mate/friend/SO stomp all over them and dictate the static, and it causes friction in the static because of that.

I prefer to raid with friends myself as opposed to strangers. It makes the content more fun. But there have to be checks and balances in place so that friendships do not negatively impact the way the static runs.


As for the “Savage isn’t fun for most people”, we have already agreed to disagree on this, because I think what is fun is subjective. If we’re speaking with regards to the amount of the playerbase that does Savage, then yes, you could probably infer that Savage isn’t fun for most people. But I think for the majority of people that do run Savage enjoy the content. Otherwise, why would they do it?

[Nezerius]

I mena, ffs look at these answers. What kind of videogame or endgame is it where the best advice is NOT to do it with friends or guildmates?

If that's how you took all the previous posts, then I'm not sure if you've read them at all.

They're saying that it's dependent on the player's goals. Is a player's goal is to clear savage content as quickly as possible, and their friends have those same goals? Great! Do their friends have a more casual look on the game? Probably not wise to raid savage with them, unless they're okay with reaching their goal at a slower pace or not at all.

[Miste]

It's because people LOVE making up lies and excuses instead of just being honest.

This tier alone I have had three people claim to be "hospitalized" or have "serious health issues" and cannot continue to raid as their reason for leaving a group.

Three within a month. Totally separate players. Two different statics. Hospitalized/Serious Health issues and cannot raid anymore for many months. I mean it seems a bit too common in my opinion lol...

If I smell bull I can usually find it too since there are some easy ways to see people are likely making up lies... coughfflogscough. It is very funny how people think you won't know they were making up lies or in general when people assume others are so naive or gullible, like if you don't care that people are going to find out you are lying might as well leave the group normally and not make bull excuses.

It made me decide on a new phrase: "Raiding from hospital bed is new meta", because all these players continued to raid even after claiming they needed to be hospitalized for serious health issues...in one case literally the NEXT DAY after they said it and the others within a few days.

I would still have at least some respect for someone for simply disparaging the group then leaving, at least they were honest and not lying and making up excuses. Liars go to zero respect for me pretty fast. I don't understand what is so hard about being an adult and simply saying "Sorry, the group just isn't working out for me." It seems so darn easy, but it seems 80% of the time people rather make up a lie.

I am extremely jaded by now since I have raided every tier in this entire game so far, but I dealt with statics where people wouldn't even say when they would be late or cannot make it and leave everyone in the dark waiting blindly for up to 30+ mins wondering if they are going to show up and usually it would end up some crazy excuse or they didn't even care to explain at all.

I understand this is a game, but the other human beings you are supposed to be playing with are NOT a game.

We have lives too, we have responsibilities, we value our time, and making us wait around for you when you couldn't be bothered to let us know is rude. With smart phones and discord and text messages there just isn't many excuses that will fly for not at least taking 10 seconds to type "can't make it" so that you aren't leaving 7 people waiting for you and wasting their time.

People will only trust you for so long if you keep making up crazy stories where every week it is something else and you are missing for the 3rd week in a row at least one of the scheduled raid days. "I'm at the emergency room, my car broke down/blew up, I was in a car accident, family member died, friend died, my pet died, my house is on fire, the police are SWATing my neighbour"....I've heard them all and it seems to me certain people really have the worst luck in the entire world where tragedies are befalling them every week.

I think some people actually believe that the more serious the reason the more believable it is....but to me it is the opposite: the more serious the reason the more unbelievable it is ESPECIALLY if it seems like every time they are MIA with zero notice it is somehow always a serious incident.

So my advice to OP is: don't continue to play with these types of people. They won't change and they will just keep coming back with excuses. It will drag you down and anyone else who actually cares about doing the static content together.

They are the types that will be like "Oh, it's just a gaaammee, why are you taking it so serious LOL" when they are simply too self centered to realize that they are wasting the time of the other human beings in their groups and it has nothing to do with it being a game or not

I made my own static recently and put my foot down about late/absent issues. Basically the rules are if you are going to be late by over 10 mins let us know ASAP, if you can't make it let us know ASAP, and if these two rules are followed then you are fine even if you are late or absent sometimes due to whatever. If it becomes a pattern of you being late or MIA with zero notice to the group then we might have to replace. Obviously if a serious issue occurs where you had no opportunity to alert us it is fine, the main thing is IF it becomes a constant pattern.

Because people are difficult.

Basically this.

In my experience they seem to rather want to jerk you around, be flaky, and see how much they can get away with instead of simply just leaving the group if they are not committed and they make things WAY more difficult than they need to be with their lies and excuses.

Don't raid with friends or significant others.

I don't agree with this.

It is possible to have a significant other and/or friends who have the same goals and can play together well.

My boyfriend and I have raided together on this game since 1.0 and for every tier since 2.0 launch. First coil we were tank/healer, and from second coil allll the way till now we are a healer duo. Him on SCH and me on WHM (then AST later).





Disclaimer: I am not saying people do not sometimes have legitimate reasons, they do, but if you call in sick every week to your sports game meet? You're likely gonna get dropped for them to get a new team member unless you prove you have a legit reason for it, because people aren't often sick every week unless they have a special medical condition. Once in awhile people can accept that something happened, but when it becomes an every week or every few weeks thing people obviously get suspicious.

[Penthea]

I don't really believe the "don't ever raid with your SO/friends" because everyone is different. I raid with my boyfriend and our friends. We know the difference between the raid/fc leaders talking and the boy/girlfriend and friend talking. In the past when I have had to confront a member about an issue I simply said to them "right I'm going to put my fc leader hat on now and talk to you about something that needs to change". If I need to get serious, I make it clear that it's me as a leader upholding my responsibility not me trying to shake up our personal relationship. If they see it as the same thing, then frankly they're not mature enough to raid.

A lot of what I learned about leading is from watching others in the past doing it wrong. I stayed in some guilds for years so I could see the long term effects of bad leadership. The most common mistake was not being consistent with rules. It was obvious some were allowed to bend and break them more than others, and often months would pass before it got dealt with, if it ever did. Too much tolerance is another common thing. It simply doesn't work to wait until a problem is huge before dealing with it. Doing that just lands you with a horrendous and maybe even impossible mess to tidy. I can't even begin to count how many times I have watched too much tolerance result in several people leaving. One of the most important things I have learned is that you can't please everyone, and if you try to most times you end up pleasing no one at all.

My static hasn't had the epidemic of problems OP has, but we did have a member of the raid team who was often late. We eventually had to kick them from the team, but we made it clear that our issue with them was purely related to raiding, so they were allowed to remain in the fc. Aside from their tardiness they were an otherwise pleasant person.

[Sigma-Astra]

I like to think that sometimes you have to treat statics like you're managing yourself with a bunch of co-workers, and in a sense you are, even if you're raiding with known friends and FC members instead of complete strangers. You kind of have to treat raiding like running a business, at least, especially if you're the type who wants quick and painless progression mostly. If someone is being extremely detrimental towards the group's progress or refuses to improve, then the leader has to make some hard-pressed decisions about whether it's a good idea or not to keep that person on the team, even if they may be your friend or SO. If bad behavior and dissension within the ranks start, then it's usually the leader or co-leader's job to nip it in the bud before it grows into something larger, however, I am also of a firm mind and belief that the responsibility of a healthy static doesn't just lie with the sole leader, but everyone that is part of the group. It shouldn't always be one person's job alone, it should be everyone's. People should speak freely when there's a problem, admit to faults, and help their teammates since by helping your co-players, you're helping the overall group entirely.

If you have a much more lax or casual pace that's the general overall mentality, then it's usually not so bad. If people can freely admit and own up towards mistakes and work in making less of them, it tends to makes things easier too, of course. I think keeping hold of a firm static is much easier when most of your team members are all bearing the same goals in mind and general attitude as well as pacing. My static isn't that highly competitive, so we're not looking to clear things in record timing, we just want to show that we can do these things while having a good time at the same time. We're all close or at least plausibly near the same ages, but we have some people who live in New Zealand and we shift things to make it easier on their timezone as well as our own. It's all about finding people who will accommodate your needs, respect them, and then you doing the same in return.

The first foundation towards a good a static I think, is finding like-minded people and building a foundation of acceptance and trust first without the stress of "winning" anything first and being able to lift each other up when things go south and help each other inside Savage content and outside. My static runs maps and farms and other stuff together all of the time, so we're building relationships not through Savage entirely.

Running and getting anything out of Savage is just a bonus strawberry on top of the shortcake. Hell, one of my static members gave me the motivation to finish Kugane Tower after I told her I failed at it like 5 times. I don't think I would have went back to the tower if it wasn't for her.

[Jojoya]

This is just a game, which means it's going to be low down on the priority list for most people. It's hard to find people who can put a game higher up the priority list.

Working adult doesn't mean mature adult. Some people will say anything to get what they want, including agreeing to a commitment they know they can't keep.

You can't try to form a group around what's convenient for everyone else. Form it around what is convenient for you since as leader your presence needs to be guaranteed.

Be firm up front. Tell them after the second absence within a certain number of weeks, they will be removed from the group. A mature adult will understand that their repeated absences isn't fair to the rest of the group.

Don't obsess over people not spending time outside of the instance to learn the fight. A lot of people simply can't learn that way. They need to be doing the fight to get a feel for what's really happening. Don't obsess over wipes, either. That's how people learn.

If there are problems with individuals, talk to them privately as others have said. No one is comfortable having the dirty laundry aired in public and others in the group will start wondering if they're going to be next.

As for raiding with friends, it depends on the friend. If they can pull their weight and commit to the group like everyone else, it's not a problem. If they're going to try to play on your friendship for special favors, don't do it. I've got long time friends I would absolutely trust in a static group and others I wouldn't want to raid with outside of an occasional pug. You just have to try to use your best judgment.

[LalaRu]

When I faced issues as the OP mentioned, after a number of experiences and various tries, I found the best way is kick the most absent/busy IRL member as soon as possible.

It may be a friend, but if s/he cannot commit to even a minimal schedule because her/his own irregular things IRL, s/he didn't had to join in first place.

[kamenkuro]

Finding folks you mesh with is difficult. You're lucky if you do. You shouldn't fault people for not showing up. It's a soft removal. You can still play with us, just can't rely on you for raid. Of all the people that left the static or were dropped, only 1 actually had an issue with it. He was removed because he was a bit much and he was grating on folk's nerves. Which segues into another thing. Try not to burn folks out. Constantly beating your head against a wall is not healthy. Take breaks. Kill easier things. It helps. Also talking to members openly helps. If someone feels something isn't right hash it out. See who can do what to help.
Also, be lucky. The static I'm in has had it's ups and downs. We've had bad eggs and have been half annihilated at one point. Luckily we gathered up, pulled through and chugged along.

[Sebazy]

Probably the biggest takeaway here is to keep praise public and criticism under the table. A lot of people struggle to take critical advice and feedback well, it's just a human nature thing. You wouldn't collar a mate on an evening out and tell him that he actually really does stink infront of everyone else and expect him to take it well. Coming down on someone's mistakes or shortcomings in a raid setting isn't much different. You simply do it quietly or you can expect bad things to happen.

The point at which you replace someone is much more subjective though. Personally I've got absolutely no time for repetitive inconsistency. Sure stuff happens, you get family/partner agro etc, one offs are no problem at all, but when it's every other raid day? I don't care if the reasons are legitimate or not. You're ruining and wasting 7 other people's evening so for the good of all, it's time to move on.

As far as skill goes? Some people take longer than others to learn and understand an encounter, so I like to be as leanient as the group's momentum will allow frankly. If someone's got a good attitude and at least understands that they are making a mistake whilst being willing to listen and be coached through it, then it's all good in my eyes.

[Crystal_Raven]

Use the same rule I have used for years regarding statics.

A member joins a static and proceeds to refuse to improve and insult each other? Out of the static. No questions asked, no debate, get out.

A static is not a democracy, there is always one player that stands above the rest either by purely having higher skill level or being experienced at running statics. Or both. It's only a game, but if you a person decide to refuse to learn anything and slow down the rest of the group, get out, you are no longer part of this static, I do not care if that person apologizes 300 times.

As another note, running with an FC static is the worst thing you can do. I don't even consider my FC as viable simply because I've seen how some of them behave and decided it is not worth my time and effort to organize vegetables who think being incompetent is ok.

You want a static? Find random strangers and jump in together. Years ago on a different MMO I needed a static, the FC was not an option because of their behaviour, so I went out and found random people. We didn't talk much between each other, everyone know their jobs, no one considered being incompetent was ok, the only option we accepted is for our skill levels to go higher and higher, nothing else was deemed acceptable, a close clear was terrible, smash the entire raid with little effort or it's no good, try again. With this attitude our group became known in the entire server.

The skill level required was innately higher in that game compared to this just from it's design. However, in this game it should be possible to find a static with all the players that refuse to accept any other outcome other than constantly gaining a higher skill level.

Don't treat the static as your family, or as your FC, or as your friends or anything. You are all there to do a job, if you as part of that static cannot perform your task, then you need to leave.