Do You Want Revisions or a New Game?

[Tanathya]

Snip

People doing ARR relics is a tiny, insignificant portion, and it's not relevant, that's the point. And yes, I've been in FFXI exactly since the day it was released in NA, up until 2015, and things barely changed per se with ToAU, except maybe with the fact that people didn't want BLMs in their parties due to colibris mimicking. That was the biggest change/imbalance, period, the rest was content added to what was already there.

[Gemina]

People doing ARR relics is a tiny, insignificant portion, and it's not relevant, that's the point. And yes, I've been in FFXI exactly since the day it was released in NA, up until 2015, and things barely changed per se with ToAU, except maybe with the fact that people didn't want BLMs in their parties due to colibris mimicking. That was the biggest change/imbalance, period, the rest was content added to what was already there.

It's relevant to them. That's why they're doing it. I would also wager that the side of the playerbase that wants ground breaking changes to also be the minority. Perhaps the devs see them as tiny, insignificant, and irrelevant much like you do with players who are still exploring old content. Should they be ignored in the same fashion?

And what do you mean nothing changed? Certain mechanics such as skillchains and magic bursts became for the most part unused as TP burn parties became the thing. RDM went from being one of the busiest jobs in the game to a refresh/haste bot. General leveling became brainless. BCNM instances that used seals were no longer being run. The list goes on and on of all the changes that came with ToAU. Aye, they did add a lot. But to think that the brunt of the changes was BLMs not getting into parties is completely false. The fact that you feel otherwise is why I even asked if you were around prior to ToAU because your views reflect those who came after.

I can't speak much for what happened to FFXI after ToAU. I wish I could say it was a bad dream. But I remember the overwhelming number of upset players. I remember all the LSs that disbanded. The server population decline. The endless "OMG FFXI is dying" threads on the forums. Believe me, I wish I could say I was full of it.

[Tanathya]

It's relevant to them. That's why they're doing it. I would also wager that the side of the playerbase that wants ground breaking changes to also be the minority. Perhaps the devs see them as tiny, insignificant, and irrelevant much like you do with players who are still exploring old content. Should they be ignored in the same fashion?

And what do you mean nothing changed? Certain mechanics such as skillchains and magic bursts became for the most part unused as TP burn parties became the thing. RDM went from being one of the busiest jobs in the game to a refresh/haste bot. General leveling became brainless. BCNM instances that used seals were no longer being run. The list goes on and on of all the changes that came with ToAU. Aye, they did add a lot. But to think that the brunt of the changes was BLMs not getting into parties is completely false. The fact that you feel otherwise is why I even asked if you were around prior to ToAU because your views reflect those who came after.

I can't speak much for what happened to FFXI after ToAU. I wish I could say it was a bad dream. But I remember the overwhelming number of upset players. I remember all the LSs that disbanded. The server population decline. The endless "OMG FFXI is dying" threads on the forums. Believe me, I wish I could say I was full of it.

It's Square who devalues their own content in FFXIV by doing this kind of patch cycles and the endless, massive item level progression. I, for one, wish older content was relevant, so you're very wrong there too.

Mechanics such as magic bursts, and not skillchains, were gone because of what I said before: parties killing colibris, these mobs mimicking magic. TP burn parties were a thing way before ToAU existed, such as in Boyahda Tree with RNG TP burn pts, or Cape Teriggan BLM pts. General leveling didn't change the pattern with ToAU, at all. BCNM instances were, in fact, ran; many of them dropping high value items, such as the Kraken Club BCNM, for example (I don't know where you got that from anyway, amongst a myriad of things being discussed here). I can attest to that. As you can see, I didn't "come after". I was right there since the very beginning, so you might as well start thinking that you're actually wrong, perhaps?

The overwhelming amount of backlash was almost exclusively restricted to Besieged, which was literally unplayable.

If there is something we can agree on is the fact that they're not gonna change much, as those who want it are in the minority. I personally don't hold any hope for this game, I just don't care if they change it or not, they've shown their cards many times over.

[Gemina]

It's Square who devalues their own content in FFXIV by doing this kind of patch cycles and the endless, massive item level progression. I, for one, wish older content was relevant, so you're very wrong there too.

Mechanics such as magic bursts, and not skillchains, were gone because of what I said before: parties killing colibris, these mobs mimicking magic. TP burn parties were a thing way before ToAU existed, such as in Boyahda Tree with RNG TP burn pts, or Cape Teriggan BLM pts. General leveling didn't change the pattern with ToAU, at all. BCNM instances were, in fact, ran; many of them dropping high value items, such as the Kraken Club BCNM, for example (I don't know where you got that from anyway, amongst a myriad of things being discussed here). I can attest to that. As you can see, I didn't "come after". I was right there since the very beginning, so you might as well start thinking that you're actually wrong, perhaps?

The overwhelming amount of backlash was almost exclusively restricted to Besieged, which was literally unplayable.

If there is something we can agree on is the fact that they're not gonna change much, as those who want it are in the minority. I personally don't hold any hope for this game, I just don't care if they change it or not, they've shown their cards many times over.

You're not wishing for older content to remain relevant though. You want the drops in this content to remain relevant. You want something like an ARR or HW relic to be a viable, if not BiS for endgame, am I not correct? If so, that goes back to XI progression vs XIV progression. There is another time, and another place to talk about that. And there will be a lot that I will agree with you pertaining to that, I am sure.

We can argue all day about what we experienced with ToAU, as it really sounds like we experienced completely different things. Which is fine, but one thing you need to get straight is I am not saying you're wrong about anything. What I will never agree with you on though is that nothing changed with ToAU, and I can attest to the very same things I claim.

I will agree with you on besieged, it was horrible. Campaigning also wasn't a whole lot of fun either, unless you were maxed out and could feel like you were actually contributing, which kind of defeated the purpose of it. What it really sounds like is you are in favor of drastic changes, and are every bit as biased as I am when it comes the current state of FFXIV. That is fair, and I respect that. At the end of the day, I am fine with the game as is and you are the one who has to decide if there is enough enjoyment in it to continue. Should drastic change come, then that predicament shifts over to me assuming the changes are favorable to you and other players. The cards they've shown many times over is a struggle to find balance, and the playerbase isn't making it any easier for them.

[Tanathya]

You're not wishing for older content to remain relevant though. You want the drops in this content to remain relevant. You want something like an ARR or HW relic to be a viable, if not BiS for endgame, am I not correct? If so, that goes back to XI progression vs XIV progression. There is another time, and another place to talk about that. And there will be a lot that I will agree with you pertaining to that, I am sure.

We can argue all day about what we experienced with ToAU, as it really sounds like we experienced completely different things. Which is fine, but one thing you need to get straight is I am not saying you're wrong about anything. What I will never agree with you on though is that nothing changed with ToAU, and I can attest to the very same things I claim.

I will agree with you on besieged, it was horrible. Campaigning also wasn't a whole lot of fun either, unless you were maxed out and could feel like you were actually contributing, which kind of defeated the purpose of it. What it really sounds like is you are in favor of drastic changes, and are every bit as biased as I am when it comes the current state of FFXIV. That is fair, and I respect that. At the end of the day, I am fine with the game as is and you are the one who has to decide if there is enough enjoyment in it to continue. Should drastic change come, then that predicament shifts over to me assuming the changes are favorable to you and other players. The cards they've shown many times over is a struggle to find balance, and the playerbase isn't making it any easier for them.

There you go again. I've always wished they did away with item levels so the older content was still relevant, so you couldn't be more wrong. It isn't about XI vs XIV progression, it's the fact that FFXIV vertical progression is so aggressive, their own content gets irrelevant after a couple of patches.

Again with ToAU, that didn't change things as much as it added new content. By the way, Campaign came out with WotG.

And you're wrong again, I don't want things changed for FFXIV. Like I said, I don't hold any hope for this game, I barely play it, and it's been stale for around 3 years. Whenever they've tried to change it by adding something new a la Diadem, they failed hard, so no, I do not want nor do I expect any changes. Had you asked me a couple of years ago, I would've said probably.

I don't even know where to start. My opinion isn't so much on the current status of the game, but why so many people have rose-tinted glasses or nostalgia goggles

Can we please stop belittling others by wrongfully overusing this reference to those damn glasses? Can we accept the fact that people may actually, objectively think that something is far better despite being old?

[Eloah]

Can we please stop belittling others by wrongfully overusing this reference to those damn glasses? Can we accept the fact that people may actually, objectively think that something is far better despite being old?

It's not belittling, it's just the realization. People are mentioning what is great about so many other games, which is fine, but they aren't mentioning their faults either; faults that most likely mimic the issues people have with XIV. Now, this is my first MMO, so I have no frame of reference besides what others have said, but I've seen just as many people praise XI and WoW as I have people showcase their flaws in comparison to XIV. Is XIV flawed, sure, what game isn't in some way, but you have to consider everything on both ends.

A good example for this is FFVII. VII is a good game no question, but it has some glaring flaws too. One being its story telling, not it's story, it's story telling. That is most likely a result of the 2D to 3D transition.

I'm not trying to start anything since, as I mentioned before, this is my first MMO, so I don't know anything else. But it is frustrating to see the same complaints without any context.

[Gemina]

There you go again. I've always wished they did away with item levels so the older content was still relevant, so you couldn't be more wrong. It isn't about XI vs XIV progression, it's the fact that FFXIV vertical progression is so aggressive, their own content gets irrelevant after a couple of patches.

Again with ToAU, that didn't change things as much as it added new content. By the way, Campaign came out with WotG.

And you're wrong again, I don't want things changed for FFXIV. Like I said, I don't hold any hope for this game, I barely play it, and it's been stale for around 3 years. Whenever they've tried to change it by adding something new a la Diadem, they failed hard, so no, I do not want nor do I expect any changes. Had you asked me a couple of years ago, I would've said probably.

And there you go again. "You're wrong". "Wrong again.". "Nope still wrong". How about we just agree to disagree as your stubbornness is quite tiring. Too bad you couldn't get what you were looking for through FFXIV. Maybe the next one. Or just try playing a game that suits your tastes. Perhaps go to back XI, or just stay away from SE altogether as they seem to continuously disappoint you.

[Tanathya]

And there you go again. "You're wrong". "Wrong again.". "Nope still wrong". How about we just agree to disagree as your stubbornness is quite tiring. Too bad you couldn't get what you were looking for through FFXIV. Maybe the next one. Or just try playing a game that suits your tastes. Perhaps go to back XI, or just stay away from SE altogether as they seem to continuously disappoint you.

When I reiterate how utterly wrong you are is when you assume what I want. This isn't about my stuborness, it's about you twisting what I'm saying. So yes, you are, indeed, wrong, I do not want those things you say I want. If you don't like people pointing out the fact that you're wrong, maybe start reading and stop assuming? I never said I want FFXI things in FFXIV either, so what do you know about what I'm looking for. I'll play whatever I want, complain about what I want, and go back to FFXI if I so desire.

[Tiaque]

All I remember from FFXI was, a certain lv 99 update came out, and all the Whale players who spent up to 2000 dollars or so buying gil to get their relics, suddenly heard an entire chorus of this kid doing what he does best, straight at them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo Rage ensued, mountains of salt created, many players stopped playing.