Patch 4.3 Dungeon unhappiness

[sarehptar]

What you said is actually quite offensive to me. Not everyone with disabilities - like me for example - can just cope with 10 minute of 8 man content and just move on.

Just 10 minutes of byakko NM was a nightmare for me that had me needing medication just to calm down afterwards because of the stress.

Hence why I stick to 4-man content, BECAUSE it doesn't stress me out.

Hence my comment that if content in this game is enough to require you to take medication, maybe you should find a different hobby. Your disability card would impress me a lot more if this weren't, you know, an optional video game. There are plenty of of other video games out there that don't require any stressful online team efforts, and you could have easily chosen to play any of those. Instead, you made the choice to play an MMO that does, repeatedly and frequently, require slightly more difficult 8-man content as part of its most central game play--in its main story, side stories, and end-game content all the way on up. You made an informed choice to play a game that includes content you find stressful, and now you're crying foul because it turned out... to be stressful. That's like willfully reading the content warnings on something, seeing that the content has things that might trigger you, deciding to go view/read/take part in the content anyway... and then getting angry because the content was indeed triggering.

I'm not even making a "triggered" joke here, I'm dead serious. The game developers have never, at any point, suggested that 8-man content was not a normal or central part of FFXIV's gameplay. 8-man is called a "full party" for a reason. If you have disabilities or alternate needs from the majority, it is your responsibility to take care of yourself and to curate the content you experience in your life to avoid discomfort or situations that upset you so much you need medication. It's not the rest of the world's responsibility to conform to your personal tastes or disabilities. If you choose to take part in FFXIV, then you do so knowing that 8-man content is going to be a requirement in various avenues--it's your job to adapt to that. Or not.

No one is asking people to like 8-man trials. But if you can handle the ones for the MSQ, you can certainly handle one or two more on the side to keep your roulettes open. And if you can't? Time to step away from the game for sure.

[AppleJinx]

Unsub from the game! Vote with your wallet!

[Derio]

Dungeon roulette ex is OPTIONAL

[Keys2tkingdom]

For all the people who've been saying "You beat Shinryu and Tsukoyomi. Suck it up". I will say Shinryu Story is the main reason I am never wanted to ever touch the non-MSQ SB trials and primals until 6.3 because Shinryu stressed me out so much I literally had to tranquilize myself so I didn't hurt myself because how stressed I was. Tsukoyomi wasn't as bad, but I still had to medicate myself and lock myself in safe area to cope afterwards.

Again, I do not react this negatively to 4-man content. It is only 8 and 24-man content that pushes my stress levels.

I tolerate the 8-man MSQ trials because I love the MSQ and the 4-man dungeons (even the EX Roulette ones!), so I don't mind some discomfort to progress the MSQ. But locking the only dungeon of the patch with the gear needed to bump my ilvl up enough to even do the MSQ primal behind a primal I wouldn't attempt because I knew it meant extra discomfort...

Yes. I am hacked off about it.
Yes. I am, as you say, "playing the disability card".
Because SURPRISE!
YES! There varying levels of disability. Mine just happens to be worse for more than 4-man content.

So yes, SE has finally - after almost 5 years - of my support of ffxiv has finally hit a point where I will complain about things other than gear appearance or how Jobs work.

Because they changed things enough that things are finally completely out of my comfort zone - by gating the content I love to do behind the stuff I never want to do.

I believe that's all I have to say on this subject for now. Good day to most of you.

[kikix12]

So yes the argument DOES fall flat. For players - like me - who rely on dungeon gear to make the MSQ ilvl requirements, to have their source of new gear effectively cut off by optional content they'd never play under normal circumstances is very much a reason to be mad - especially since this is the first time this has happened.

There are tomestones which are entirely capable of getting you to an ilvl that is sufficient for progressing in the story. There is crafting which doesn't require any ability beyond pushing a single button at a time that is, the same, able to progress you past the ilvl requirements.

I am sorry, but optional content is optional content. It being an alternative to pass the main story requirements does not make it mandatory. Quite the opposite. It's what makes the other options (tomestones, crafting, raid) optional.

See above to see how 10 minutes in a NM primal leaves me. I only put up with the 8-man MSQ primals and trials because of the MSQ.

You have some kind of disability. It's unfortunate. However, though I mean no offense, you need to understand that this is how the game was from the beginning and limiting the story tools at their disposal for a massive minority is not a good idea from any point of view sans the very limited few. I get the attempt at making the game accessible to as many people as possible. Making accessibility options and such. And I most certainly support that...but only where it does not actually interfere with what the game represents and tries to present.

I've been a very active gamer when I was a teenager. I was good at strategies. But I stopped playing them and nowadays I plain suck. What I found easy on hard mode in the past is giving me some difficulty on easy at some moments (with a scale that goes from very easy to two steps beyond hard, and the same game in both cases). Yes, it's not a disability per se, but it is my own limitation. But I choose what I want to play. I enjoy playing it as far as I can and if I hit a brick wall with no patience or skills to pass it...I just stop. It's a game, it's meant to be fun. I won't play that which I am unable to play while having fun, even if it means stopping mid-story. I don't lose the time spent till then. So I don't see any reason to expect the developers to modify the latter stages of the game to make them easier for me.

I am sorry, but if your disability is one that makes it excessively stressful to progress with a part of content that is there since day 1, MANDATORY since day 1, just because it becomes part of a larger optional storyline to boot with a mixed content type...maybe consider other options? You seem to enjoy the dungeons (though there are dungeons with most certainly punishing mechanics as well) and possibly the story. But if you cannot progress with them on your own without excessive stress, you may want to consider looking for a game that lacks such aspects to it or find someone willing to pass them for you. If you are living with a partner, children, siblings ask them. Maybe a friend from work or school. In most of that content the skills necessary are actually not that difficult to obtain past the first two or so months of it hitting the servers. Whomsoever you choose to ask does not have to know a lot of the game. So long as they have played a game on their own, ever, and can memorize very few aspects of the game, they can pass it on first try saving you the stress. Of course, have them do it under your supervision and with you being the one to log on.

I mean, if it's a matter of health, I doubt the ToS would stand in the way for a single run of given content.


In case your disability is related to social skills or anxiety...I am socially inept as far as I can say. I could live without ever getting to know new people, I dread the though of group activities at work/school etc. I have great deal of difficulty discussing things with more than one person at a time as well. I cannot properly use Disqus and similar tools for group discussions and I DO stress on how well I do in relation to my team as I do not want to hold others back overmuch. Playing MMO does offer me some stress as well, and the harder content in particular. On an side note, I seem to be taken very negatively, with people finding offense at what I say or do without me meaning any, with me not understand the reason for them to in the first place. But I begun playing MMO's in order to force myself against those traits, because I don't want to be limited by myself. You may want to consider this.

[Keridwyn]

*snip*

This may not be an appropriate activity for you if you're going to such lengths. I know I would have to re-evaluate my time here if Ex primals were now included to unlock things. Your health and well being are more valuable than any video game.

Have you looked into PoD and Eureaka as alternative ways to cap tomes? Just started getting serious about them myself and capped tomes for the first time this expansion.

[swiss_Momo]

Well this took longer than expected. You all disappoint me.
I was waiting for this kind of thread ever since the German patch site hinted at the dungeon being part of the 4 Lords story

[whiskeybravo]

snip

I'm kind of confused. So you started the Hell's Lid quest but stopped when it came to fighting Byakko NM? I mean, at some point you had to figure you'd need to actually complete the quest, right?

But OK, let's be mad at SE for making you queue up for a faceroll easy story primal. How did you even make it through this game by avoiding primals?

And this Keys dude.. If I had to medicate myself after a NM primal I think I'd be finding a different game to play. No offense, but health is more important.

[sarehptar]

For all the people who've been saying "You beat Shinryu and Tsukoyomi. Suck it up". I will say Shinryu Story is the main reason I am never wanted to ever touch the non-MSQ SB trials and primals until 6.3 because Shinryu stressed me out so much I literally had to tranquilize myself so I didn't hurt myself because how stressed I was. Tsukoyomi wasn't as bad, but I still had to medicate myself and lock myself in safe area to cope afterwards.

Again, I do not react this negatively to 4-man content. It is only 8 and 24-man content that pushes my stress levels.

Actually, I took my own advice and stepped away from this thread, but this response just rattled around in my head. I'm genuinely not trying to be mean in my responses, and I know that "just step away from the game" is not an actual, desirable solution, especially if you like the 4-man content enough to stick with the game despite having to go to a safe place and take medicine after being forced through 8-man stuff... I mean, you have to really like the game to deal with something like that, so... If you're being truthful about this, is it weird to say that I feel concerned that you have this much difficulty with something in the game? Is anyone trying to help you with this, or are you just dealing with it by yourself?

If "step away from the game for a while"/"suck it up" isn't viable advice, have you tried other things to make the experience better and healthier for yourself? Perhaps you could find someone in your real life who would be willing to play the 8-man trials for you, so that you don't have to? Even if they play poorly, if it's just a DF group, no one is going to know or care and you won't have to deal with anyone's comments personally. Or what about your FC? Do you feel less stressed if you go with a group of people you know instead of random strangers? Have you tried creating a PF letting people know that you're nervous and you're looking for really chill, nice people to do the trial with who won't mind if you make mistakes? Maybe seek a Discord of like-minded people who are equally anxious about new trials? I am sure such a thing exists.

The thought that you are actually willing to risk your mental health over this game is stressing me out now...

[Paladinleeds]

Maybe seek a Discord of like-minded people who are equally anxious about new trials? I am sure such a thing exists.

I'm going to take this opportunity to plug The Nervous Eorzean. A Discord made specifically to help people with anxiety and depression. We've got people across EU and NA datacentres (and I think a few in JP too). So he should be able to find help for the duties there.

The thought that you are actually willing to risk your mental health over this game is stressing me out now...

I don't know what country he's in, but a part of me wants to ring a crisis team and get him looked at by professionals. I've had to do this in the past and it's NOT something I enjoy doing, but his mental health is really concerning and worrying me. Hopefully he can find a solution to progress.