Been running Ridorana Lighthouse the whole week and...

[Awha]

Sure a group is made up of individuals, but could an individual clear the content without a group? I mean sure in extreme cases it sucks to lose an item to a person that did a fraction of your dps and spent more time dead then alive. In my experience those cases were few and far in between, but I will not say they did not happen, and maybe for you they happened more frequently. I personally saw more people by the bypass the ilvl requirement, or play on classes they did not know to play simply cause they wanted to gear up a different class. Guess this boils down to which perspective / experience you prior to the change. I mean if I was lost a roll countless time to a dps that was dead most the run I probably would not like the change. Though I do like the change since I happened to run into more players trying bypass the ilvl requirement or playing on jobs they had no idea how to play cause they wanted the gear.

Is it a perfect system? No, but I personally like the idea of the group having an equal chance over some not even getting a chance to roll on something simply because the rng drop gods were not in their favor. Now everyone has the equal probability to get something at the end, sure overall the odds are lower per individual, and even if a group is comprised of individuals overall it was a group effort that allowed the content to be cleared. As I said I am an odd one though, since I view the clear as a group effort. Overall I do get where you are coming from though, I just feel the pros out way weigh the cons, and you clearly feel differently.

[Penthea]

Sure a group is made up of individuals, but could an individual clear the content without a group?

Is it a perfect system? No, but I personally like the idea of the group having an equal chance

While you are correct that the content cannot be soloed, this absolutely does not mean it can only be completed with equal and high contribution from all players. As a healer I spend a great deal of my time carrying other players in any remotely challenging alliance raids. I very regularly end up raising people in all three alliances as well as healing them. Very often I have to do far more than my fair share of work to ensure we don't wipe.

The trade off used to be that while I played a role that forced me into the position of carrying others, I had less competition for loot. So I did that extra work mostly in silence, only speaking up if something made my task impossible. My increased luck for loot was enough for me to tolerate my experiences.

And now? Well I have done only one alliance raid since the patch. I spent my time raising and healing multiple alliances as usual, but I was particularly annoyed at the bard and smn in my alliance who often wouldn't stand close enough to get any healing no matter how many times I or the other healer nicely told them. Unsurprisingly they died a lot. The healer boots dropped...and the smn rolled on them. I won but I was still incredibly disgusted.

A dps who obviously hasn't a bloody clue about the basic requirements for receiving healing has the same priority on healing gear as the healers who carried their idiotic suicidal a**. Please tell me how this is remotely acceptable.

[Awha]

A dps who obviously hasn't a bloody clue about the basic requirements for receiving healing has the same priority on healing gear as the healers who carried their idiotic suicidal a**. Please tell me how this is remotely acceptable.

It is not fair, but it is acceptable since they were part of the party. Do not get me wrong sure it sucks, I have lost rolls on tank gear to DPS spent what seemed like half the raid kissing the floor. I was salty afterwards but that is the nature of the beast, since other players that rolled on the tank gear did perform their roles and I personally would not have had an issue if they had won over the floor tank. Which is why it seems off to me since in my eyes I personally would have been fine if another non tank gets the drops over one that I personal felt performed like worse then a monkey playing osu. I figured it is one of those things you take the good with the bad. I do understand your position, but I will always put the overall group first if any chance gives more players a chance to win something in a raid I will always be in favor of it even if a few bad apples can abuse it every so often.

[KisaiTenshi]

It is not fair, but it is acceptable since they were part of the party. Do not get me wrong sure it sucks, I have lost rolls on tank gear to DPS spent what seemed like half the raid kissing the floor.

Put it this way. If you've gone the entire dungeon without rolling on something, every player is going to roll on all the end loot so they don't come away empty handed. The first time I played the Ridorana Lighthouse, I rolled on the first piece of healer gear that popped up and then won it. I then quickly checked if it was better than what I had... and it's the same i360 ilevel, so I was like "well that's disappointing, guess it's glamour" , as I already had i360 on all slots. So on the second time I ran it, same healer gear I rolled on last time came up, so I passed it. I passed on everything until a caster body gear came up and I thought about it for a minute, and decided that maybe someone who plays DPS more often would like it more and hit pass... Nobody rolled on it. I would have been fine taking that item, and not rolling on the tank leg gear at the end of that run.

Like, the problem with the weekly lockout without "need" is that players who actually want it, will lose a roll to players who maybe don't even play that job. On all other raids that do not have the lockout, you can no reason not to greed everything you want, because someone will certainly want it, even for seals/desynth. The developers should have removed being able to turn in for seals/desynth from the alliance raid gear along with the greed-only change so that players only greed on gear they want to wear or use for glamour. Or alternatively, allow like-for-like trades of gear via a NPC so that you only need to win any gear for that slot to exchange it for the gear you want.

[Awha]

Like, the problem with the weekly lockout without "need" is that players who actually want it, will lose a roll to players who maybe don't even play that job. On all other raids that do not have the lockout, you can no reason not to greed everything you want, because someone will certainly want it, even for seals/desynth. The developers should have removed being able to turn in for seals/desynth from the alliance raid gear along with the greed-only change so that players only greed on gear they want to wear or use for glamour. Or alternatively, allow like-for-like trades of gear via a NPC so that you only need to win any gear for that slot to exchange it for the gear you want.

As I mentioned before it is not a perfect system and SE could have gone about it better, but I do understand the intention behind the change and I appreciate the effort, as you mentioned they could have done about it differently and personally I have suggested a gear trade npc in another thread, that would be my perfect ideal system. I will take the good with the bad when it comes to the change, I would like adjustments to be made and I am sure with time adjustments will be made to the system. Way I see both systems screw over a group of players I am simply in favor of this system since in this system everyone has a equal shot at walking away with something.

If you think it's acceptable then you do not understand my position.

My English is not that great, but I was under the impression that fair and acceptable do not necessarily mean the same thing. I do agree that it is unfair that someone who does next to nothing has the chance to roll on something, but can we really say that within the current system it is not acceptable for them to roll being as they were part of the group and were given a chance to roll by the system?

[Penthea]

but can we really say that within the current system it is not acceptable for them to roll being as they were part of the group and were given a chance to roll by the system?

I'm not saying it is unacceptable for them to roll. I am saying it is unacceptable for loot to be equal priority for everyone including people who aren't playing that role. It rewards laziness and dumb luck. It doesn't reward a player for actually trying to play the role they want gear for.

Furthermore without being able to roll need I can't even be nice about gear unless someone alerts me in chat that they need it. When need was still around I could roll greed on something not for my role or for glam without taking away loot from someone who actually needs it for their current role. Now I can't. Now I have to potentially be the ***hole who took someone else's gear because we can only roll greed or pass.

[Awha]

I'm not saying it is unacceptable for them to roll. I am saying it is unacceptable for loot to be equal priority for everyone including people who aren't playing that role. It rewards laziness and dumb luck. It doesn't reward a player for actually trying to play the role they want gear for.

Furthermore without being able to roll need I can't even be nice about gear unless someone alerts me in chat that they need it. When need was still around I could roll greed on something not for my role or for glam without taking away loot from someone who actually needs it for their current role. Now I can't. Now I have to potentially be the ***hole who took someone else's gear because we can only roll greed or pass.

In my eyes everyone in group should have equal priority since it is the effort of the group that allows for the gear to be obtained. Sure you could feel that your efforts on the job inherently holds more value simply because the piece of gear that dropped aligns with the role you choose. For me that simply does not make sense, and seems highly unfair since that gear that dropped would not have been up for grabs without the group. Sure in some extreme cases you have players that want to be carried, but it inherently does not promote laziness, just a byproduct of treating the group more fairly on a larger level. Hope that makes sense.

[Penthea]

It is not fair, but it is acceptable since they were part of the party.

I do understand your position

If you think it's acceptable then you do not understand my position.

[BillyKaplan]

The argument of giving priority back to the players that can equip it is personal spite for the player who won gear when not on a class that could currently equip it.

It really isn't, though?

You: I don't want that person to win that item. (though that can still happen even under the new system!)
me: I want to win that item (because it is an upgrade for me).

Can you still lose the item on Need rolls? Yes, but at least then we have gotten to where they can't logically limit it more. Your argument is fueled by your feelings for other people while most people who want the Need button back want it for practicality's sake cuz they keep losing gear that's an immediate upgrade for them.

The developers should have removed being able to turn in for seals/desynth from the alliance raid gear along with the greed-only change so that players only greed on gear they want to wear or use for glamour.

I know glamour is the "true endgame" but I fail to see why it should take precedence over desynth. It's hard enough to level it up in some tiers without taking away raid gear. It's already locked for the next couple of weeks, no need to make that restriction harder.

[SendohJin]

I know glamour is the "true endgame" but I fail to see why it should take precedence over desynth. It's hard enough to level it up in some tiers without taking away raid gear. It's already locked for the next couple of weeks, no need to make that restriction harder.

because any desynth skill up that conflicts with glamour should have other options. glamour only has one maybe two options usually.

i don't really mine Greed only on Ridorana (or whatever has the weekly lockout), i think it's really dumb that it's on the ones without lockout and you can free roll everything.