Been running Ridorana Lighthouse the whole week and...

[BillyKaplan]

Maybe I am just an odd ball, but as a tank I personally never understood why in a PUG I should get better chances over another player for getting a piece of gear

Then you need to reread my post because I listed some examples. For starters, the other players might not have the job unlocked, not to mention in a relevant level. You, however, do, proof of being on that job while in the instance. Why should they be given the same right to roll on it as someone who'd actually need the piece right now?

it was a group effort

Was it, though? Really? Healers in particular have it rough on the first weeks of 24-player raids. And you're saying that the self-same dps who spent most of the time dead has as much right to roll on the healer gear that dropped, despite it being immediate upgrade for the people who kept the party alive? Fair numbers wise. Otherwise, no, it's really not fair.

so in my eyes it is only fair in the entire group has a chance to roll on the item at the end.

And they do in every other piece of content - assuming the people with Need roles did not use them so the Greed roll initiates. It's not like people never manage to Greed anything with the Need button enabled.

Sure it might not be fair to individual players, but it is fair for the group as a whole

Ok see if you can follow this concept - a group is made of individuals.

Don't really see how all-greed is any more or less fair than fighting 7 other people for a shaft in Sigma for four weeks - only that Ridorana takes awhile and you can't focus a certain boss.

Like you said, it's much shorter. There can also be a debate about difficulty if only due to how many people are in the instance. Then there's the fact that in Sigma you have much less rng to fight because the drops are currency - you don't have to run it a billion times only to get to the last chest in the Lighthouse and see that your caster chest piece didn't drop. Again. And if you disband on Hashmel while you needed a top piece, which only drops from the 3rd and 4th chests? It's not even comparable when you think about it like that.

[Seniade]

Was it, though? Really? Healers in particular have it rough on the first weeks of 24-player raids. And you're saying that the self-same dps who spent most of the time dead has as much right to roll on the healer gear that dropped, despite it being immediate upgrade for the people who kept the party alive? Fair numbers wise. Otherwise, no, it's really not fair.

This was worse with the old system: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...90#post4019190
I quite frequently saw players horribly under-geared using accessories to bypass the min item level, that didn't know how to play their alt class, just to skew the gear rolls in their favor.

[BillyKaplan]

I quite frequently saw players horribly under-geared using accessories to bypass the min item level

You know what would help with that? Being able to roll Need on a healer piece that dropped in that instance instead of losing it to a MNK which is what happens right now.
As for your particular example with accessories, I notice your post is well over a year old. Since then 61+ accessories became role-locked so people can't do that anymore.

that didn't know how to play their alt class

I'll let you in on a secret. Some people don't know how to play their mains.

[Seniade]

You know what would help with that? Being able to roll Need on a healer piece that dropped in that instance instead of losing it to a MNK which is what happens right now.
As for your particular example with accessories, I notice your post is well over a year old. You may have noticed that in the meanwhile, 61+ accessories became role-locked so that people can't do that anymore.

The player did have healer accessories. The problem is that for average item level requirements, all pieces are treated equal, but accessories have the lowest overall stats and a lack of defense.

I'd rather lose a roll to a MNK that actually played competently than to a dead weight co-healer that's really a DPS main that's just moonlighting as a healer for improved roll odds.

[BillyKaplan]

I'd rather lose a roll to a MNK that actually played competently than to a dead weight co-healer that's really a DPS main that's just moonlighting as a healer for improved roll odds.

I should hope the developers take more into account than personal spite when reviewing the feedback for this change.

As for the rest of the scenario, I agree there's a problem, but not that this is the solution. Maybe revisit the weight for ilvl, have a minimal vit rate to queue. All-Greed is not the solution, especially since ultimately it does not, in fact, keep people from playing classes they're bad at.

[Seniade]

I should hope the developers take more into account than personal spite when reviewing the feedback for this change..

That can be taken both ways. The argument of giving priority back to the players that can equip it is personal spite for the player who won gear when not on a class that could currently equip it.

[Awha]

Sure a group is made up of individuals, but could an individual clear the content without a group? I mean sure in extreme cases it sucks to lose an item to a person that did a fraction of your dps and spent more time dead then alive. In my experience those cases were few and far in between, but I will not say they did not happen, and maybe for you they happened more frequently. I personally saw more people by the bypass the ilvl requirement, or play on classes they did not know to play simply cause they wanted to gear up a different class. Guess this boils down to which perspective / experience you prior to the change. I mean if I was lost a roll countless time to a dps that was dead most the run I probably would not like the change. Though I do like the change since I happened to run into more players trying bypass the ilvl requirement or playing on jobs they had no idea how to play cause they wanted the gear.

Is it a perfect system? No, but I personally like the idea of the group having an equal chance over some not even getting a chance to roll on something simply because the rng drop gods were not in their favor. Now everyone has the equal probability to get something at the end, sure overall the odds are lower per individual, and even if a group is comprised of individuals overall it was a group effort that allowed the content to be cleared. As I said I am an odd one though, since I view the clear as a group effort. Overall I do get where you are coming from though, I just feel the pros out way weigh the cons, and you clearly feel differently.

[Mahrze]

...

So, better for it to be lost on a generic roll to whoever than someone who went in specifically to get it, regardless of performance? lol ok.

Because there is obvs a guarantee that whoever wins it "deserves it" by every other merit than being the role that can make use of it...

[Tsumdere]

I'll let you in on a secret. Some people don't know how to play their mains.

This greed only system has not made runs smoother. I've had more stupid people in Ridorana than ever before because now people are just doing whatever they want because they can roll on whatever they want. I've eaten tank busters as a RDM WITH Diversion on in a couple of those bosses because people who just want fast queue as tanks go in and sit on their thumbs the whole time.

Also, I have seen an influx of people sitting on loot come last boss, refusing to roll until the timer runs out. They want people to get frustrated and leave so they have a better chance of winning. I am guilty of this as well - I did Void Ark on NIN for the top and it dropped and I rolled a 98. At least 5 other people made me wait out the timer (hey, I can do homework while I wait) because THEY wanted it too. It's all and all a super obnoxious system that is just causing vitriol in parties.

[Alleo]

This was worse with the old system: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...90#post4019190
I quite frequently saw players horribly under-geared using accessories to bypass the min item level, that didn't know how to play their alt class, just to skew the gear rolls in their favor.

And now they can do the exact same thing but roll on gear that someone that does great for the party would need and win it thus take it away from someone that did their job and that needed it.

Also people should not forget that you could have still updated your other jobs with the old system. If no certain DD was in the group, anyone could greed on it, and if the healers or the tank did not need the item in any way they could pass on it and someone else could get it for the job. But at least it gave those that go into this with certain jobs the first chance to roll on it.

Now its just: Hopefully none of the other 7 people roll on the tank/healer/DD pieces that I need and hopefully I get anything out of this at all. And honestly the tank and healer pieces are probably the most wanted ones next to those for glamour. So all the tanks and healers that are running it now will never have the safety of the old system, where they could at least now that they got the item with a 100 or 50 % chance if it finally drops.