DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[NoctusT]

..you're not getting nailed for harassment over for using a parser, though. Harassment isn't "someone was mean to me." If that were the case half the people in MMOs would be banned at one time or another.



not really. both of those probably would be a standard deviation off, and generally skill settles in a bell curve. Most people cluster around the middle, with relatively few at the extremes. If you mean people would be nice and not mean, well, thats a fundamental disagreement that could only be proven by it actually happening.

I didn't say people would be nice, just that there's no reason whatsoever that square's rules about harassment and griefing in party chat would change. People already kick others for bad DPS because they have act. The only people who can't do this is are PS4 players. And a lot of them raid with people who DO have ACT. There's all this fear about people suddenly becoming incredibly toxic or something but thing is that people are already being kicked for bad DPS, they just don't know WHY they've been kicked, or the party leader lies to them to be nice about it.

EDIT: if you don't care about your DPS as a DPS main, having an in game parser won't change that. Folks who don't care will not want to improve overnight. But an in-game parser will be an invaluable resource for PS4 players who DO want to improve. Yeah, you have people who will abuse an ingame parser, but the presence of a parser will not automatically turn nice people into "toxic elitists" or whatever you people call them... if someone is being an arse without a parser, chances are that they'll still be an arse if they get an in game parser.

I've just seen a lot of fear mongering in this thread with no evidence of their claims.

On a personal note, I have seen multiple screenshots of people without a parser being "toxic" in party chat. Like 4k samurais asking why they're hitting enrage on a boss. I've also been in parties with ninjas who trick on the first gcd and don't use shadewalker blame the party for "bad dps"

I must admit that a vindictive part of me would love it if these people could see their own DPS. Mind you I doubt they'll actually go learn their jobs, but at least I wouldn't have to deal with their whining if we wipe in a clear party.

[RiyahArp]

Soooo.... I really don't have a dog in this fight, but a few things are off about this argument:.

1. 4-6.5k or so seems to me to be a rough spectrum of dps in those fights, and people here gave an average of 5k DPS. I don't think it's that far off. Extremely high dps would be canceled out by people who bought their runs, but both would be small. Tahts how percentiles work in general, they conform to a U shaped bell curve.

2,3. Again, the teeth in it I think is using third party tools. When that threat is gone, I don't think simple meanness = harassment. Keep in mind in Feast, they removed chat over banning a lot of people for toxic behavior.

4. I doubt it. Most people who do that low won't try savage for long. Remember the topic was 4k dps, not 2.5k dps.

4.5. ..yeah you say this, but if he's the top DPS, people probably would put up with him a lot more than you think.

There's all this fear about people suddenly becoming incredibly toxic or something but thing is that people are already being kicked for bad DPS, they just don't know WHY they've been kicked, or the party leader lies to them to be nice about it.

They no longer have to lie to protect themselves. And again, its what you believe about people. We'd see if they'd allow it, but the fact that they don't makes me think they really don't trust players to do the right thing.

[NoctusT]

They no longer have to lie to protect themselves. And again, its what you believe about people. We'd see if they'd allow it, but the fact that they don't makes me think they really don't trust players to do the right thing.

I don't expect them to trust players. I just want them to stop hindering folks who want to improve and learn new jobs because they play on PS4. PC players already have parsers and world prog raiders have shown these parsers on their streams. The dev team doesn't care so long as you don't be a jerk about it.

"Again, the teeth in it I think is using third party tools. When that threat is gone, I don't think simple meanness = harassment. Keep in mind in Feast, they removed chat over banning a lot of people for toxic behavior."

I don't know what you mean by this? That they'll remove ACT? Please see my point above if so. They do not care that you use act.
The removal of chat in Feast was a controversial decision that a number of people complained about iirc.

EDIT: OMG please remove this stupid character limit.

EDIT 2: why would they no longer have to lie? Please answer this question: why would square remove their current rules if they added in an in game parser. If anything they'd only make them more strict.

[Ruf]

You did 2300 DPS on DRG in o5s with a single death (9:04) on May 7th (kill time 10:04).

If I want to know my % I will ask ok? tyvm

[NoctusT]

Was I talking to you? IIRC someone said something very dumb like "everyone starts at the bottom at the beginning of each tier" which is not only wrong but also an incredibly lazy excuse for their terrible DPS.

OH and if you wanna see your DPS you can just check fflogs dude.

[KaivaC]

Ya know Kaiva, I honestly don't think a question mark was going to prevent the direction this thread was going to go.

Clearly. No matter what, it probably would have resulted in this anyhow. It is what it is. Most generally have two different stances on it - either for or against. In all my time here, it's obvious that neither side is going to convince the other. Insofar as the current conversation goes, too many people are getting too easily offended when someone says something as simple as 'Hey, <insert DPS>, your DPS is a little low. Would you like some tips or pointers? I'd be glad to help.' Naturally, there are examples out there of folks who don't try to point things out in a rational manner and instead resort to harassment over that. The same can be said for non-raiders as well, who can be quite toxic.

Still, I can't help but wish I did include that question mark. Regardless, I said what I needed to say. If those who have read that part still think I'm expressing a statement, then the problem is on them. Support of an official parser, even though that's not really the point of this topic, is not going to create a sudden huge boom of harassment. Most only use it in content where it matters, ie savage and ex, and maybe sometimes 24-mans.

[Awha]

I agree that a parser is a tool like any other and as a tool it inherently is not good or bad the user determines that. To a degree I like the current system we have going, while not perfect I wish it was opt-in instead of out but that is beside the point. If SE were to make an official parser (which I doubt will ever happen with Yoshi-P at the helm. Pretty sure he is still upset over the whole Koike incident) it would be optional or only track personal data which for a lot of people defeats the purpose of having a parser. I am not saying that is fair that they use only a handful of harmful experiences as a blanket over the whole issue, but this is SE we are talking about. The same people that removed feast chat due to a small handful of complainants.

Also not sure the context but calling out someones DPS on a forum is in poor taste.

[NoctusT]

Also not sure the context but calling out someones DPS on a forum is in poor taste.

Context: someone was using a very general statement which was also completely incorrect to say that people who want others to do DPS don't know what they're talking about. I originally thought they didn't raid at all which is why they said something that incorrect. But when I double checked I found that they were just using such a statement to justify their terrible play, so I called them out on it. I suppose I could have gone about it differently.

[Ruf]

I think most parsers dont know what they are talking about.

[KaivaC]

I think most parsers dont know what they are talking about.

Parsers as in the tool, or as in other who see what you are logging. Let's talk about it. I'm being serious too. Elaborate on this comment, and let's have a civil discussion about it. Can you explain more on what you mean? And if you bring in the numbers that were seen on what you logged, I'll be happy to engage in that line of discussion too about what you may think could be wrong about what was quoted. Or if you want to drop it, I'll drop it too. It's up to you, but for now, you have my full, undivided attention.