DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[Gin_Gray]

When it comes to harder content(Ex,Savage,Ulti), I care about the other 7 members in my group. That being said I try my hardest to make whatever I'm currently running go as smooth as possible. A lot of people don't know how they're doing and coast by without ever really knowing they're under performing, which has lead to some rather uncomfortable situation like the post mentioned about about the Sam/Drg. If a rating or something was implemented at the end of a duty I think it would quell some of those issues. I know everyone would feel a lot better losing to a roll that was equally earn as a group.

[SaitoHikari]

When it comes to harder content(Ex,Savage,Ulti), I care about the other 7 members in my group. That being said I try my hardest to make whatever I'm currently running go as smooth as possible. A lot of people don't know how they're doing and coast by without ever really knowing they're under performing, which has lead to some rather uncomfortable situation like the post mentioned about about the Sam/Drg. If a rating or something was implemented at the end of a duty I think it would quell some of those issues. I know everyone would feel a lot better losing to a roll that was equally earn as a group.

It's not just that either.

I feel that the harassment towards people under-performing in parties is currently disproportionately nasty towards tank and healer contribution rather than the DPS. And I imagine part of it is because of the view that many see DPS as expendable for various reasons not even related to parsing at all. At the same time, the tanks and healers perpetuating it themselves are likely also doing it precisely because the community is now reaching a point where there's mutual distrust among public parties, and they cannot counter underperforming toxic DPS shifting the blame around without outright admitting that they're parsing themselves.

Being able to see tank and healer contribution towards a fight is very easy. But for DPS, it is ridiculously hard, and accountability is difficult to gauge. People go by enmity meters, but the problem with that is that most top-tier DPS will keep it as low as possible, because not only will they probably want to give the tank some room to switch out of tank stance and into DPS mode safely without worrying about the well being of their teammates, it's also because they know they will do so much damage that they will freaking die if they don't mitigate their enmity properly. And nothing tanks DPS faster than death.

[Gin_Gray]

I agree, unless you have a parser or know the rotation for everything as well as timers its very hard to pinpoint which dps is doing well. Unlike if you simply look at a tank in tank stand or a healer sitting idly around. Its rare that anyone take the L or responsibility for anything, but with that said all anyone can do is remove and reform with like minded people. Still when it comes to current harder content sub 4k is pretty low depending on the fight.

[RiyahArp]

Being able to see tank and healer contribution towards a fight is very easy. But for DPS, it is ridiculously hard, and accountability is difficult to gauge.

I'm not sure the toxicity would be erased if you saw dps. If anything people might just end up being toxic to the sam and drg even if they don't act like idiots. It would be worse because in their mind they are justified, and the drg and sam would have to eat it and endure the kick. I think over time it might make people gunshy in the same way they are of healers and tanks, because if there's a decent enough negativity towards failure people become risk averse and avoid things as not to get reamed out.

[MoroMurasaki]

I'm not sure the toxicity would be erased if you saw dps. If anything people might just end up being toxic to the sam and drg even if they don't act like idiots. It would be worse because in their mind they are justified, and the drg and sam would have to eat it and endure the kick. I think over time it might make people gunshy in the same way they are of healers and tanks, because if there's a decent enough negativity towards failure people become risk averse and avoid things as not to get reamed out.

I believe the SAM and DRG in Hyo and Cass's example getting kicked wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, though. Before anyone cries toxicity read the rest of the post.

It was a farm, not a learning or clear party. Farm parties are designed to clear a fight multiple times. That party was lucky that they had some strong DPS with them (Hyo on BRD in particular is kinda magical to watch) but if all the dps in the party were performing at the level of that DRG and SAM there is no way they would ever clear even with perfect mechanic execution because they just couldn't beat enrage.

To me this means those dps were overreaching and venturing into content they weren't prepared for, at least not in a farm party. By all means join learning parties to better nail down mechanics and to learn the job-specific adjustments needed to improve personal dps, even clear parties would be fine in my opinion, but if you're going to try to farm something you should be able to pull your own weight.

That's the crux of this discussion - dps pulling their own weight. A DRG or god forbid a SAM doing less dps in a "farm" than I did on RDM in my first clear is simply not keeping up and they need to practice more before they try again at that level. I would venture to say that even joining a farm party when your dps is so insufficent for the content is an act of toxicity in and of it's self except there is a very real chance that SAM and DRG had absolutely no idea what they were contributing or in this case lacking.

So no, I don't think everyone having the ability to parse would generate more toxicity. If anything it would inhibit it. A PF could go up to farm Tsukuyomi requiring DPS to be over 4.5k dps in a prior clear or looking for a certain percentile in damage. At that point if a person joins one of those parties and isn't qualified to they've put themself in that situation. The difference is get get to be aware of where their own performance is and the requisite performance level of the party their joining lands - if those intersect, great! If not? Move on or make your own group. No one is blind in that situation.

The beauty of it is that if Joe Schmo makes some kind of offensive or harrassing statememt about some pug dps' contribution in a leveling dungeon the chat logs and report button still work. Parsers don't mean carte blanche on rudeness and improprieties.

Oh, dear. I will of course cease posting immediately in case the opinion of someone I don't know and have never talked to decreases further.

Thank god.

[RiyahArp]

I believe the SAM and DRG in Hyo and Cass's example getting kicked wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, though.

It would be funny if they required that, because I'm guessing you'd instantly lose 30% of people willing to join farm parties. keep in mind if 5000 is the average, the amount of people 4500 and below is going to be roughly equal to those 5500 and higher. But I meant more that people are a lot more toxic in general when they think its justified, and I bet even in learning or clear parties you'l start to see it taken out openly on the low dps in the same way people leave after one or two wipes in content. and in time, the people remaining would reply back in kind. It would get a bit meaner, because it could now.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

It would be funny if they required that, because I'm guessing you'd instantly lose 30% of people willing to join farm parties. keep in mind if 5000 is the average, the amount of people 4500 and below is going to be roughly equal to those 5500 and higher. But I meant more that people are a lot more toxic in general when they think its justified, and I bet even in learning or clear parties you'l start to see it taken out openly on the low dps in the same way people leave after one or two wipes in content. and in time, the people remaining would reply back in kind. It would get a bit meaner, because it could now.

I don't see any reason to believe SE's stance on harassment would change any if there were to be an objective measure of everyone's performance...