DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

[KaivaC]

My issue with OP’s topic is the labelling. You don’t need to classify players as garbage. In this game, you don’t need to be a top dps player or whatever to be classified as a ‘good player’. This definition will fluctuate as we are all individuals and our perspectives are unique. Personally, a good player is someone who is enjoying themselves and helps people and listens to others. Good player = good person. To me that’s more important than someone doing dps. Yes there are talented people but don’t go calling people who aren’t as talented ‘garbage’ . That’s just a trashy analogy

You know, I’ve apologized for a lot of things in this thread – but the one thing I will NOT apologize for is something that I never said in the first place. This is how I know you have no idea what I even said originally – the intents of the thread title and the original post are contradictory. I missed putting in a question mark. I am not saying that 4k DPS are trash. I forgot to put a question mark in it – something I did say a page or two ago. That is what I am apologizing for, because I have a number of people are up in arms thinking that I have made an elitist thread. The intent originally was to ask if this was a valid statement, why or why not. It’s why I’m going to such lengths to hide myself and why I have apologized multiple times, because I have never in my life said anything like this and I don’t need people hounding me down and accusing me of being a damn elitist in-game.

I will repeat again: the title was not supposed to be a statement. It was supposed to be a question. If these asinine forums didn’t restrict me from editing it, I’d have been added a question mark already. Unfortunately, I cannot change the title of a thread, but let me be clear: it is a question, not a statement.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't see anything "rude" about his comments. You jumped to your own conclusions about the context of his post, and when he said you were wrong and making assumptions about him (which you were), you quickly switched tact to calling him toxic and passive-aggressive, abruptly blaming him for not clarifying. I'd call that many things, but "civil" isn't one of them.

Repeatedly saying “this person has painted a picture of me”, repeatedly refusing to elaborate on their position, and repeatedly responding with passive-aggressive comments starting and ending with “lol”/“rofl xD”—no, there are no if’s about those comments; they were passive-aggressive and deserved to be called out as such—is displaying toxicity. If he didn’t want assumptions to made, his very first post (“This thread makes me sick to my stomach...”) could have been elaborated upon. Instead, he posts it in the midst of a debate about DPS and parsing, so, pray tell, what are people to assume? That he’s talking about dinner making him sick to his stomach? Please. He only answered what he meant by that comment well after the conversation had already devolved. Surprisingly, what made him sick he was displaying himself.

MageBlack had no issues elaborating on their position, and apologized for being a bit vague about it. And I graciously accepted his explanations, and we both apologized for our misunderstandings. It’s surprising how conversations can actually evolve and go places when you stop being vague and actually offer explanations as to why you feel the way you do. Or when you aren’t, quite frankly, a jerk with regards to your replies. Could I have perhaps not let my temper get the better of me towards the end? Perhaps. But I’m not going to agree that myself or others disagreeing with Issac were in the wrong here.

Now, do you actually have anything constructive to add to this thread? Or are you here to just stir the pot? Some are actually trying to get it back on track, or evolve it into other meaningful topics pertaining (however loosely) to the opening post, yet you jump in and continue to derail it.

[MageBlack]

You know, I’ve apologized for a lot of things in this thread – but the one thing I will NOT apologize for is something that I never said in the first place. This is how I know you have no idea what I even said originally – the intents of the thread title and the original post are contradictory. I missed putting in a question mark. I am not saying that 4k DPS are trash. I forgot to put a question mark in it – something I did say a page or two ago. That is what I am apologizing for, because I have a number of people are up in arms thinking that I have made an elitist thread. The intent originally was to ask if this was a valid statement, why or why not. It’s why I’m going to such lengths to hide myself and why I have apologized multiple times, because I have never in my life said anything like this and I don’t need people hounding me down and accusing me of being a damn elitist in-game.

I will repeat again: the title was not supposed to be a statement. It was supposed to be a question. If these asinine forums didn’t restrict me from editing it, I’d have been added a question mark already. Unfortunately, I cannot change the title of a thread, but let me be clear: it is a question, not a statement.

You cant put the genie back in the bottle. Not at this point. You could delete your entire OP and enter a retraction of sorts but that would be the best you could hope for. Without the ability to actually delete our own threads or even edit the titles, once its out there, its out there. You have done what you can and I know it has changed my initial impression of this thread along with actual level headed conversations about the topics that have been brought up here. I don't think its a waste of time and there has been some good debate as a result. It has not been a total loss.

One thing that has helped me a little bit when dealing with crabby people online (which is all of them?) is to remember this quote, "You you to insult me I would first have to value your opinion" for me to value your opinion I would first have to care that this random ass person online is worth the comments they made.

Then again sometimes it can be amusing to troll the trollers but there is a fine line between combating trolls and becoming a troll yourself. I try to be more of a hemorrhoid than an asshole, assholes just exist to spew out crap but hemorrhoid's irritate assholes.

[Miste]

instead of actually admitting it

Yeah, because you always admit when you are wrong about something right? /s

Why are you trying to moral high ground when you don't even do what you are telling others to do.

You don't have these virtues you are telling others to have. A bit hypocritical don'tcha think?

If you post on a public forum you have to accept people may ...you know...respond to you? It's public.

You shouldn't post if you don't want replies to what you post. If you don't want people misunderstanding you it is best not to make vague comments and/or exaggerations that can seem passive aggressive, and then when asked about it you don't clarify.

Of course people aren't going to understand when someone doesn't clarify vague statements when asked. Playing the victim card and blaming everything on the people "not understanding" you when you are being purposefully vague seems ridiculous.

[Lunaxia]

Repeatedly saying...

He didn't "refuse", you repeatedly made incorrect assertions he called you out on. You then foisted the responsibility for your hastily made judgements on him, and now you're hiding behind his so-called "passive-aggression" to attempt to justify it, and that's far more "toxic" than anything he may have said. If using "lol" and "xD" are signs of "toxicity" then this whole forum may as well be cast out to sea, your peers included.

"I graciously accepted his explanation"... ye gods.

Funny, that. When I'm adding onto a discussion (that wasn't so much "dropped" as having someone harassed into silence), it's "stirring the pot" or "white knighting", yet there's a group of you that are virtually incapable of saying anything without the other three or four joining in.

[SaitoHikari]

Funny, that. When I'm adding onto a discussion (that wasn't so much "dropped" as having someone harassed into silence), it's "stirring the pot" or "white knighting", yet there's a group of you that are virtually incapable of saying anything without the other three or four joining in.

I've only been casually observing this thread, but I feel that I have to comment on this. Have you stopped to consider that you actually are?

Even a quick glance at your recent post history yields a very high aggressiveness/post count ratio, and that seems extremely unhealthy to one's judgment.

[HyoMinPark]

He didn't "refuse"

If, somehow, your position is different, why don’t you try clarifying instead of making passive-aggressive remarks.

And as I said before (in the post you actually did quote), if you had a different position with regards to parsers, maybe you could clarify it instead of being passive-aggressive and vague.

I asked no less than twice for a clarification of his position—his comments gave nothing to go on other than a negative one. Unless you consider “this thread makes me sick to my stomach” a positive comment. He didn’t actually clarify what his first comment meant until Dualgunner asked, which was after the back and forth with me.

Keep in mind that both of my responses were to the following comments:

This person seems to have painted a picture of me.

A lotta aspiring painters, it would seem :/

See that tiny graphic next to your name in the quote? The one with the tiny 2 white triangles? Click that. See my name quoted in that(your) post? Yes, I'm referring to that.

I am saying you are making claims about me that are simply not true. I don't know why I need to spell this out.

I don’t know how any of these are clarifications when I blatantly requested them. They are passive-aggressive/condescending remarks, however.

”I graciously accepted his explanation”...ye gods.

I mean, I did. But I take it you skipped over that part of the thread.

Funny, that. When I’m adding onto a discussion (that wasn’t so much “dropped” as having someone harassed into silence), it’s “stirring the pot” or “white knighting”

No, the back and forth between Issac and the rest of us had not been a thing for several posts; the conversation had since shifted to Discords versus FCs with regards to mentorship and forming communities/networking. You came into the thread and tried to bring it to the forefront again, and have refused to drop it. That’s called “stirring the pot”. This thread isn’t about Issac; it’s about opinions surrounding damage, and has evolved into a discussion about parsing and personal improvement, and posters’ opinions on that. Yet, you seem pretty intent on keep the conversation about something people aren’t even concerned about anymore.

yet there’s a group of you that are virtually incapable of saying anything without the other three or four joining in.

Have you ever considered that maybe myself and others don’t have patience for nonconstructive posts? Or posts that turn a largely civil debate into a hostile one? I’ve been in plenty of debates without some of the posters in here, and, likewise, they have been in their own debates without me present at all even in passing. Mayhaps we’re all in here disagreeing with you (and Issac) because we just happen to share similar opinions?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

He didn't "refuse", you repeatedly made incorrect assertions he called you out on.

No, he repeatedly called people trying to understand his initial post, which was equally vague, "painters" in lieu of simply elaborating on his actual stance. Isaac never wanted a discussion, but simply a sounding board where he could mouth off without being called out. If he did, well, he would have elaborated like literally everyone else posting here.

And there you go with assumptions again. Are people not allowed to share similar opinions? We are all active forum posters, there is going to be frequent cross over, especially on more heated discussions. Coincidentally, I have argued with both Moro and Miste in other threads. Guess what? They always remained civil because neither are passive aggressive. It's almost as though being vague doesn't help your argument.

[InkstainedGwyn]

As someone reading these threads with popcorn and tea, I will say that I find it interesting that the people I tend to agree with overall (I'm not a fan of parsing) are often the ones who end up on my block list for being super aggressive and the folks I don't agree with are the ones who I still have no interest in blocking because I enjoy reading logical comments and rebuttals.

There's reasonable people on both sides, and there's aggressors on both sides, but I really do enjoy the stretches where I actually see people debating these issues with examples and facts and not name-calling, elitism, hyperbole, and scare-mongering. I have strong feelings on this subject, but I can see both sides, and I wish we could have more threads where people actually debate. Those of you trying to bring logic into these threads, thank you.

[Jellybums]

Nobody on this topic has asked anyone to play like a pro. Most people here have said that it's good to mess things up as long as you learn from them and you're not a burden to your group. And if people advise to join the discord of the Balance, it is mainly because it is full of people ready to help you, and a mine of information on this game. Nobody forced anyone to join.

You're just trying to transform your argument so that people who do not want to improve are seen as victims, which is wrong. It's a MMORPG, you work with teammates, as a team. You do not get carried away by others because you do not want to learn basic rotation.

Minako_Nightsong, for example, said she was trying to improve as a bard. I did not see a single post shaming her. Only words of encouragement or advice.

I'm straight out saying you can't fat shame people into going to the gym, or shame players into joining a Discord server. And this goes to everyone who unwittingly have misplaced their critiques here of DPS performance right in this thread. You don't have to call other players garbage tier but by critiquing "subpar" DPS performance here, you reinforce the message of subpar as garbage tier. Look, it may not be dick pic in a billboard advertising a car or insurance, but if it's shaped like one and perceived as one, it's just as inappropriate. Same with all the critiques here. This isn't the thread where you can be helpful without reinforcing a very negative message. That's just how it is.

And I wouldn't want any newbie or returner to read through this possibly anxiety inducing experience of a thread. There are good threads in this forum that are helpful, plenty of them, minus the pressure.