Confused about people's obsession with open world raids/dungeons.

[WiiSam]

Go check the other thread man. This one has 30 likes, pro more than just instances thread has 150. Numbers dont lie.

I was never taking a poll. The other thread directly instructs and requires people to vote. This isn't about voting. This is about discussing how we can eliminate open world VICIOUS competition that was a STAPLE for FRUSTRATION in XI. We don't need that here. The majority of people do NOT like such intense competition,only the hardcore do. But the non-hardcore agree that without open world dungeons/NMs there will be a lack of an "MMO" feel. But I am suggesting that we fill those gaps in with other activities that aren't competitive to keep the open world very interesting.

Open world immersion by no means has to rely on competitive activities, open world immersion should focus on trying to get people TOGETHER, not AGAINST each other.

[WiiSam]

So for the love of god and the sanity of my friends and me, PLEASE stop making threads in the trend of 'NO MORE OPEN-WORLD/HARDCORE/ETC CONTENT QQ'. Because at the end of the day, we should have both; and these threads usually end up devolving into trolling/stupid arguments, anyways.

I actually think this thread has been doing quite well. Minimal trolling. I applaud everyone that has been participating thus far, this has been a great discussion and I'm sure we've all learned a lot.

[Tango]

I was never taking a poll. The other thread directly instructs and requires people to vote. This isn't about voting. This is about discussing how we can eliminate open world VICIOUS competition that was a STAPLE for FRUSTRATION in XI. We don't need that here. The majority of people do NOT like such intense competition,only the hardcore do. But the non-hardcore agree that without open world dungeons/NMs there will be a lack of an "MMO" feel. But I am suggesting that we fill those gaps in with other activities that aren't competitive to keep the open world very interesting.

Open world immersion by no means has to rely on competitive activities, open world immersion should focus on trying to get people TOGETHER, not AGAINST each other.

I think most people posting in this thread are for open world content with strong competition. Its fun and exciting and should be game.

[Qfoxy]

I i have enjoyed many mmo games ... some have instance dungeons and some have open world bosses. but what make SE mmo special .. that they dont give u only 1 dish to eat ... but they open big buffet of contend to do in very big world, so idea of having specific type of contend .. will make game boring after period of time, that why i quit most of other mmos but i didnt quit SE's games yet

[WiiSam]

I i have enjoyed many mmo games ... some have instance dungeons and some have open world bosses. but what make SE mmo special .. that they dont give u only 1 dish to eat ... but they open big buffet of contend to do in very big world, so idea of having specific type of contend .. will make game boring after period of time, that why i quit most of other mmos but i didnt quit SE's games yet

I get that what you're saying but we aren't trying to stick to one type of content, ie instanced content, we are just suggesting the open world content refrain from being too competitive. In terms of competitive content let us limit it to roaming NMs and maybe open world pvp arena's or something like that. Other than that let us push for other fun things that do not foster competition but a certain togetherness so we get that outdoor world MMO feel of running into people by chance. And then you have your instanced dungeons/raids.

People will always gravitate towards the instanced dungeons anyway. Take a look at what is happening right now, the evidence is there. MORE people run ifrit than they do strongholds. MAJORITY of people who do strongholds do it for spiritbonding or to get to rank 50, but not for the coffers. Why? Two reasons: 1. the loot isn't that great and 2. the competition is retarded. So they settle for crafted materia gear and rage ifrit. /boring

Now some of you will say "ok here is how we can fix this: let us make the stronghold gear awesome and NECESSARY to beat Ifrit." You have any idea how many people will rage quit to have to go through that FRUSTRATION just to get a chance to nail ifrit?

[Tango]

I get that what you're saying but we aren't trying to stick to one type of content, ie instanced content, we are just suggesting the open world content refrain from being too competitive. In terms of competitive content let us limit it to roaming NMs and maybe open world pvp arena's or something like that. Other than that let us push for other fun things that do not foster competition but a certain togetherness so we get that outdoor world MMO feel of running into people by chance. And then you have your instanced dungeons/raids.

People will always gravitate towards the instanced dungeons anyway. Take a look at what is happening right now, the evidence is there. MORE people run ifrit than they do strongholds. MAJORITY of people who do strongholds do it for spiritbonding or to get to rank 50, but not for the coffers. Why? Two reasons: 1. the loot isn't that great and 2. the competition is retarded. So they settle for crafted materia gear and rage ifrit. /boring

Now some of you will say "ok here is how we can fix this: let us make the stronghold gear awesome and NECESSARY to beat Ifrit." You have any idea how many people will rage quit to have to go through that FRUSTRATION just to get a chance to nail ifrit?

Can to please explain why competition is so terribly bad? I am really failing to see anything that states why it is bad.

[Kiote]

I was never taking a poll. The other thread directly instructs and requires people to vote. This isn't about voting. This is about discussing how we can eliminate open world VICIOUS competition that was a STAPLE for FRUSTRATION in XI. We don't need that here. The majority of people do NOT like such intense competition,only the hardcore do. But the non-hardcore agree that without open world dungeons/NMs there will be a lack of an "MMO" feel. But I am suggesting that we fill those gaps in with other activities that aren't competitive to keep the open world very interesting.

Open world immersion by no means has to rely on competitive activities, open world immersion should focus on trying to get people TOGETHER, not AGAINST each other.

I believe in a very large variety of content running the full gambit of extremes. There should be simple fun content and there should be highly competitive content. You however said quite specifically there should be No open world dungeons. This is, in my opinion, unacceptable. There has to being dungeon crawl style zones that evoke the sense of adventure a community needs to interact and bond. You don't make friends by shouting in town and while a LS is a good way to find some, you shouldnt have to apply for friend either. Meeting people in the field is by far the best way to build the community and direct competition is one of the most effective ways to do this. It creates Rivalries. Sometimes things will get heated, but most of the time it's just spirited competition. Devs can assert control over the level of competition without removing it entirely.

Off the top of my head:

Kill and HNM? Your party cannot claim that HNM for 5 mins after it's next spawn. Very easy to implement, works the same way as Behest does now.

But Dungeons do not equal HNMs. Dungeons are zones. If you need to eliminate competition on a Dungeon Boss, you Instance the Boss not the Dungeon.

[WiiSam]

I believe in a very large variety of content running the full gambit of extremes. There should be simple fun content and there should be highly competitive content. You however said quite specifically there should be No open world dungeons. This is, in my opinion, unacceptable. There has to being dungeon crawl style zones that evoke the sense of adventure a community needs to interact and bond. You don't make friends by shouting in town and while a LS is a good way to find some, you shouldnt have to apply for friend either. Meeting people in the field is by far the best way to build the community and direct competition is one of the most effective ways to do this. It creates Rivalries. Sometimes things will get heated, but most of the time it's just spirited competition. Devs can assert control over the level of competition without removing it entirely.

Off the top of my head:

Kill and HNM? Your party cannot claim that HNM for 5 mins after it's next spawn. Very easy to implement, works the same way as Behest does now.

But Dungeons do not equal HNMs. Dungeons are zones. If you need to eliminate competition on a Dungeon Boss, you Instance the Boss not the Dungeon.

ok on the first point, you can have your dungeon-sized "zone" open world no problem. But do not make it competitive. Do not add coffers and NMs in there. Put cool monsters and a "boss" but not one that drops super valuable loot. Not a boss that drops a piece of loot you HAVE to have. Keep the area open world but let it be uncompetitive, let it be fun to explore for quests and other activities that foster grouping up and togetherness, not competition.

When I say dungeon, I am talking about what we think is a typical dungeon in a typical mmo: an area with trash mobs and bosses that require a group and you run it over and over to get loot from bosses and trash. That type of scenario should be instanced, the others shouldn't. I am not saying that once it is a cave with a cool layout it must be instanced. I am saying by the generic definition of a dungeon, let it be instanced, otherwise keep the layout and zone open world but do not add the competitive factors, ie loot. Put quests there and other cool things like landmarks or just make the boss simply a fun experience so people do not have to compete.

On your second point, do not instance just a boss because I understand how cool it is to have roaming NMs, roaming open world NMs are awesome. It is good competition, we can sit and watch, learn, get an epic feel. But an entire dungeon? Coffers mini bosses, all that other stuff? All that other stuff is usually just for the loot and not that epic, it doesn't need to be competitive, that type of activity if made competitive is just annoying and is almost like any other "grind".

[MistyMew]

ff14 needs a healthy mix of both open world and instanced contentand as well a healthy mix of instanced/open world AND crafted reward system. period.

i like instanced dungeons (i play wow for those), i love anything to do with open pve battles/nm/and especially things like campaigns thats why i loved ff11 so much. Oo)

if the team will put best gear ONLY in instances then thats a fail waiting to happen, a total and complete copy of WOW and thats a bad bad idea.
i dont want ff to be a WOW clone, they can do better then that.

now having some of the best gear instanced, sure! and some of the best gear in outdoor...sure! and lets even have some of the best gear crafted!!

the minute they start to limit where gear comes from they will instantly lose a playstyle. ff14 isnt strong enough of a game as is to even risk losing anymore.

i say if the team was wise....offer something of each. instanced, outdoor, crafted= all worthwhile and all have wonderful rewards for doing them. all offer epic rewards worth making/camping/farming.

its turning more and more into WOW style and tbh i hate that. (now dont get me wrong i play wow! i play rift!...but ff isnt and shouldnt try to imitate their reward system... it always shuns certain styles and that can only be a bad move.

which is why open and instanced content is equally needed. and would be a far more wise business move

[WiiSam]

Can to please explain why competition is so terribly bad? I am really failing to see anything that states why it is bad.

Check this thread out titled "Bad Player Behavior":http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ior-of-players