According to FFLogs, AST pDPS >= WHM pDPS in 4.3

[ko_]

Is Ast doing more DPS then Whm a bad thing? I don't know as I main monk. I'm generally asking here. - don't hurt me. T.T-

[Lastelli]

Is Ast doing more DPS then Whm a bad thing? I don't know as I main monk. I'm generally asking here. - don't hurt me. T.T-

It is, because of cards. Even before this patch, AST was preferred to whm because it could increase rDPS with cards and this more than compensated for it's inferior pDPS. Right now, however, AST is doing more pDPS than WHM, it increases rDPS by a considerable amount and it can heal just fine. They also made mana issues less impactful with the lightspeed buff. Furthermore, it is now super mobile and doesn't even have to worry about aggro because its more powerful heal does not generate enmity. Honestly, I'm disappointed.

[KDSilver]

First off, no,that's not how it works.....The cast time reductions were themselves a straight buff and pretending they weren't is intellectually dishonest, at best.

Raw dps potencial excluding anything else, he has the same.
Real dps capacity in fight isn't.

Otherwise => "But yes, that was an indirect increase.
"And his new mobility" => That includes what you said.

Don't know what you'd have prefer me to say but there must be a misunderstanding.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Is Ast doing more DPS then Whm a bad thing? I don't know as I main monk. I'm generally asking here. - don't hurt me. T.T-

Very much so. It relegates White Mage into a similar position occupied by Samurai, i.e. "Why bring this job when its counterparts do almost everything better?" White Mage offers no raid utility outside healing, thus its high personal DPS made it competitive with Astro's rDPS. With the recent changes, all White Mage offers now is better healing and MP management—neither exactly coveted outside progression. And even then, Astro is no slouch.

Put simply, if this continues through larger sample sizes, AST/SCH is once again the de facto best.

I fear this too. Or even worse, they just don't see anything wrong with this in general because WHM can still heal fine, despite it no longer offering much else to the raid

That's another concern as well. They keep using the equivalent to defend Red Mage and Samurai despite both suffering noticeably.

[RLofOBFL]

Whm may be an extremely powerful healer, but not 600+ rdps powerful. I hope they do something about WHM. It feels like it's almost back to HW WHM now(not quite that bad though I suppose). Either WHM needs minor utility and a slight dps buff, a very big dps buff, or third and the worst option imo is it needs a gigantic heal buff.

[Caduagm]

I know it's a little off post, but it's funny to see all the complains about AST's slightly less or equal DPS than WHM and nobody saying a thing about Scholar... :thinking:
Please don't get me wrong, I am all up for whm buffs after this; it's just funny how people are blind about Scholar.

[KDSilver]

Very much so. It relegates White Mage into a similar position occupied by Samurai, i.e. "Why bring this job when its counterparts do almost everything better?

Except that this example doesn't really work entirely for WHM.
It still has a better healing toolkit than Ast.

Ask raid players who will experience Ultimate next week what healers they will bring.
There'll be a lot of WHM for solid reasons.

I'd like to share that message from someone in another thread that is accurate

I did Ultimate with AST (1%) and WHM (clear), and I can say it's far more easier to do this type of fight with WHM than with AST.
Why ?
- AST require more mental load because of : the cards system (you need to know perfectly how to deal quickly with cards depending of the situation), plan Earthly Star 10-20 (or 30 sec with CO) in advance. More cast per minute (mental load).
- Mana management : if it's not managed well or too much death, you can't continu the fight.
- Healing must be accurate, efficient and well planned. Cure III or Benediction is not here to save him and the group in emergency.
With the recents changes to AST, the real benefit he will have now is his mobility, that's all.

So, I don't see again the problem. WHM is similar to RDM, more safety to the group. If you are not for that, change your job.
If you fear WHM will disappear of the screen, it won't.

People need to stop underestimate WHM recovery or strenght.
Benison is up every 30s and mitigate 15% of your target HP. Plenary is an additionnal aoe heal based on stacked/instant cast/we don't even have to care about the range.
Benediction is up every 3min, Cure III is extremely nice for a lot of situation and save you and your co-healer mana and gcd waste.
He has a good DPS burst thx to PoM, in single target and aoe (+assize that also heal and give back mp every min)
The best MP managment of the 3 healers and no fear of dropping to low because of raises or high healing burst.

Seriously, stop only watching dps contribution as if it was the only thing that matters while it's not.
Watch and talk with people around you who push classes performances.

[Miste]

Then you add stuff like this, where the damage reduction on Lightspeed is removed and billed as a "QoL" change (L o L) when it's actually just a straight buff that makes WHM completely redundant

It was not only a buff. It was buff wrapped in QoL.

Lightspeed is supposed to be a buff ability. When you think of an ability which is supposed to make your character better for its duration you assume it won't have an annoying detriment to it.

It was annoying. Not fun. Clunky too since you had to click the buff off after doing the heals every single time you used it.

WHM is not completely redundant just because of the lightspeed change so don't start the over dramatic exaggerations.

SE just needs to give WHM some more pDPS or lower AST Malefic III's potency some so we can adjust this while keeping the QoL and the fun aspect.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I know it's a little off post, but it's funny to see all the complains about AST's slightly less or equal DPS than WHM and nobody saying a thing about Scholar... :thinking:
Please don't get me wrong, I am all up for whm buffs after this; it's just funny how people are blind about Scholar.

Tbh, I think people sort of gave up on SCH. SE seems almost biased to them and always makes them the strongest healer hands down no matter what, any issues they have are fixed immediately, any QoL issues are dealt with straight away.
--

@KDSilver

Personally I don't think it's really healthy to have certain jobs only balanced for progression and falls behind afterwards. I feel like every job should at least have a chance at excelling in their role. As it is now, no mater what a WHM does, they can't beat an AST, but an AST can still heal all content like a WHM can, I just don't think that's fair.

Now, don't get me wrong. WHM is still a strong healer, but that's all they are. They really don't bring anything else to the raid otherwise. Will this kill them? Not at all. Will they be getting locked out of PF? Nah. You'll probably be the last choice people want in their raid, but that's as far as it will go I feel. This is nowhere near in the level of 3.4.

[Yuyuka3]

WHM was never nerfed. Actually in HW it saw no changes at all, while SB saw various changes that could be classified as buffs.

Still, I do agree with not holding your breath for any response to this issue.
To SE, as long as a healer can heal content without much issue, they're fine. It sucks though because healer balance was actually really good for a while there. It's a shame that we're back to this.

WHM was nerfed VERY often, as proven to you beneath you. Also, I feel you are very optimistic. If AST continues to have as much pDPS as WHM on top of their buffs, and being able to heal everything just fine, WHM will be left out eventually. Because why take them if you have someone who can do the same with some extra?

Btw, I got asked why I'm not playing AST now that they are better the other day again. From a person who usually says I'm very good at what I do. Yeah... should tell you everything you need to know about what's ahead for us.

I know it's a little off post, but it's funny to see all the complains about AST's slightly less or equal DPS than WHM and nobody saying a thing about Scholar... :thinking:
Please don't get me wrong, I am all up for whm buffs after this; it's just funny how people are blind about Scholar.

Nobody talks about SCH because AST doesn't threaten SCH in any way, shape, or form. Also, you got the best crit buff in the game. You got nothing to complain in this regard.