Extend auto-demolish

[Mikki]

I'm shocked how callous and cold some of the replies are here. Wow. Just because someone is super busy or away from the game for some weeks doesn't mean they "don't play" and therefore "don't deserve the house". What if they are visiting family abroad for some time and have no internet access but play every day before then and would play every day after then? Life happens, it doesn't mean you don't deserve to keep something you worked hard on in the game. No one should have to make the choice between something they poured a lot of time and effort into on a game they have paid for and their family or some other important aspect of their life - you know obviously that's not really a choice, is it? And that's really messed up. Especially knowing how long I've spent making all the items for my house and decorating it, using wall tricks and all that and nearly screaming in frustration when every time I leave and re-enter, something is off its alignment... and how many months I spent saving for this house, how I totally abandoned my old server and made the sacrifice to play on a server no one wants to stay on just for the chance at the house I wanted and how I made sure to log on during the initial release of Shirogane to get it. And I'm sure my story is similar to many others.

Honestly, there are some people who have a completely EMPTY house in my ward. I'm at my house all the time and I've literally never seen them since the first week of housing. Yet their house remains because they take a few seconds to step into their house every 45 days. I even have a friend who is hogging a large in Shirogane who ONLY logs in every 45 days to keep the plot even though he doesn't use it. The system hardly works anyway, why punish those who actually do use their houses but can't come around?

People keep saying "why should SE care?"....Um, excuse me?? Maybe because we are their customers? Maybe because we have been playing for many years and supported them through all this time? Maybe because treating us with a little empathy keeps us around? What company in their right mind says "well they unsubscribed or can't use the service for a bit so screw them"?? Most companies I know say "How can we get them back?" or "How can we make their return experience good so they stay?" ...Isnt that why they have a returners bounty and a callback campaign? Suggesting that SE shouldn't care about their customers is insulting. Especially to SE. No company wants that title.

I get people are frustrated because of the limited housing but the system hardly works as it is anyway. Maybe they should have a system where if you have accumulated X amount of time actively in your house (AFK does not count), your timer for auto demolition when inactive increases up to a cap and is reset every year.

[Lucke]

I'm shocked how callous and cold some of the replies are here. Wow. Just because someone is super busy or away from the game for some weeks doesn't mean they "don't play" and therefore "don't deserve the house".

Uh, if they are "super busy or away from the game for some weeks" is the definition of not playing. If you are not on for 30 days, you don't deserve a house, bottom line. Being realistic is not being callous. If you aren't online for a month or more, then you really aren't deserving of that house. What's really callous is people hoarding houses, never using them, while players who want a house and will actually visit it every day are rejected because people buy a house and don't even use it.

[Mikki]

snip

Taking a break due to necessity is not the same as simply not playing, if you ask me. It isn't necessarily like they are just deciding they don't want to play. Yes...technically they aren't playing physically. But come on. If you play almost every day for 10 months out of the year and simply can't play 2 months for some reason, you suddenly don't deserve the house you worked hard for? Yet, other people who play maybe once a week or a few times a month are somehow more deserving?

Context definitely matters and this system has no way of viewing it. We need to find a better way to deal with hoarders, not take houses from people who actually DO use the house often but simply have life get in the way for awhile. Especially on a game that supposedly encourages people to take breaks from the game. Maybe rework the whole system and give us instanced housing.

[Lucke]

For FCs this is a non-issue: Just get SOMEONE from the FC to enter into the house once a month. For personal houses, it's much harder. But the answer to your question is "yes" the person who signs on once a week is more deserving of the house than the person signing on once per month. That is the reality of the situation. It sucks to lose your house because of real life crap, but real life shouldn't come before a video game, houses be damned. If you have to leave the game for 2 months due to some real life issue, you should be worrying about that instead of a virtual house. (This is why houses should be FC only and apartments/personal rooms in the FC be for individuals.)

[Mikki]

I get where you're coming from, truly. I do. But I feel it's a bit ridiculous to say that one small lapse in your play time results in losing something you've worked hard for and typically do use regularly. Yes, real life comes first and that's exactly my point. You don't get a choice. Real life comes up and suddenly: Sucks to be you. Bye bye house. It's difficult because every situation is different and it's hard to say who really "deserves" it - a beautifully decorated house, lost in a small lapse of time gets bought up by someone who leaves it empty and never goes in except to stop the timer. Sounds fair. But regardless, you don't really get to say "it's just a game, get over it and worry about your real life" because you don't get to determine how someone else values the things they invest their time in.


That's why it would be better to have DECENT instanced housing. IMO, it would be better to keep the current houses as FC only and use instanced for personal. But overall, I don't really want the timer to change so much as I wish that the system itself would change because I think it's awful right now. I just hate this horrible attitude of "It's just a game, screw you and all the time and effort you put into this. Sucks but get over it. SE doesn't care and neither do we."

[Jojoya]

Snip

Limited resources should never be reserved for those who aren't actively using them. Should that person who's only stepping foot into their house once every 45 days to prevent auto-demo lose it so it would actually go to someone who would be actively using it? Sure.

But how certain are you that the house isn't getting used just because you don't see decorations? Not everyone uses their housing in the same way. I've got a neighbor who's done almost nothing with their house yet I do see them go in and out a few times a week as I do my gardening. Maybe you should ask your friend why they're holding onto something they aren't using when it could go to someone who would use.

What makes you think SE doesn't care? They do care about their paying customers or newer players wouldn't have access to housing because people who played the game 2 years ago but have since quit own it all. The 45 days is pretty darn generous. How often have you had serious real life issues take you away from the game for 45 days? How many people do you personally know that have had that happen? Would you rather they take away the house after a week instead?

The system may not work the greatest but what you're suggesting would break it even farther all the for sake of people who may never return to the game.

I've been through auto-demo with my first house. I understood that was a risk at the time I bought it. I hadn't planned on being away from the game for 9 weeks but hey, it happens and this is just a game. Better that the house went to someone who was playing and using it rather than leave it sitting there for me when I might have never returned.

I understand that auto-demo is still a risk with the new house I have that I've invested even more into than I did with my first house. I know with my real life situation I might end up unable to play for another 9 weeks or even longer at some point. If I lose the house, I lose the house. It's a petty, trivial concern compared to real life. At least for now, I'm actively using and enjoy the house and inviting others to come in to enjoy it as well. If I lose it later, I lose it. If i'm able to return to the game again, I'll rebuild and start over just as I did this last time. Gil is too darn easy to make and furnishings too easy to come by.

I get where you're coming from, truly. I do. But I feel it's a bit ridiculous to say that one small lapse in your play time results in losing something you've worked hard for and typically do use regularly. Yes, real life comes first and that's exactly my point. You don't get a choice. Real life comes up and suddenly: Sucks to be you. Bye bye house. It's difficult because every situation is different and it's hard to say who really "deserves" it - a beautifully decorated house, lost in a small lapse of time gets bought up by someone who leaves it empty and never goes in except to stop the timer. Sounds fair. But regardless, you don't really get to say "it's just a game, get over it and worry about your real life" because you don't get to determine how someone else values the things they invest their time in.


That's why it would be better to have DECENT instanced housing. IMO, it would be better to keep the current houses as FC only and use instanced for personal. But overall, I don't really want the timer to change so much as I wish that the system itself would change because I think it's awful right now. I just hate this horrible attitude of "It's just a game, screw you and all the time and effort you put into this. Sucks but get over it. SE doesn't care and neither do we."

Yeah, sorry. I am going to judge someone who's going through a hissy fit over losing a house in a game because they weren't playing the game for an extended period time. That's someone who's either very sheltered from the realities of life or extremely shallow. Even in a game, there are times you need to make risk assessments and accept the loss if things don't turn out in your favor. It's not that hard to rebuild in game since that's just a part of playing the game.

I agree there's a need for better instanced housing, which is what apartments are. There should be size options comparable to the house interiors. SE said they're thinking about increasing apartment options and hopefully that's something we'll see next expansion.

I don't think the ward housing needs to be reserved for FCs, though. On most worlds the wards would be half empty if it were FC only because there just aren't that many active FCs that want housing but don't already have it. On Coeurl, we've got over 100 smalls and around a dozen mediums available at any given time. A lot of those smalls have hit minimum price. Any FC here that didn't have a house but wanted one could easily get it. I get the situation on Balmung and a couple of other high pop worlds is different but it could be that SE just can't set things up to allow wards to expand as needed on an individual world basis. Adding more apartment options would probably be the better solution for those worlds.

[Claviusnex]

If you are not on for 30 days, you don't deserve a house, bottom line. Being realistic is not being callous. If you aren't online for a month or more, then you really aren't deserving of that house.

If I'm still paying my subscription I sure do.

Limited resources should never be reserved for those who aren't actively using them. Should that person who's only stepping foot into their house once every 45 days to prevent auto-demo lose it so it would actually go to someone who would be actively using it? Sure.

But how certain are you that the house isn't getting used just because you don't see decorations? Not everyone uses their housing in the same way. I've got a neighbor who's done almost nothing with their house yet I do see them go in and out a few times a week as I do my gardening. Maybe you should ask your friend why they're holding onto something they aren't using when it could go to someone who would use.

What makes you think SE doesn't care? They do care about their paying customers or newer players wouldn't have access to housing because people who played the game 2 years ago but have since quit own it all. The 45 days is pretty darn generous. How often have you had serious real life issues take you away from the game for 45 days? How many people do you personally know that have had that happen? Would you rather they take away the house after a week instead?

The system may not work the greatest but what you're suggesting would break it even farther all the for sake of people who may never return to the game.

I've been through auto-demo with my first house. I understood that was a risk at the time I bought it. I hadn't planned on being away from the game for 9 weeks but hey, it happens and this is just a game. Better that the house went to someone who was playing and using it rather than leave it sitting there for me when I might have never returned.

I understand that auto-demo is still a risk with the new house I have that I've invested even more into than I did with my first house. I know with my real life situation I might end up unable to play for another 9 weeks or even longer at some point. If I lose the house, I lose the house. It's a petty, trivial concern compared to real life. At least for now, I'm actively using and enjoy the house and inviting others to come in to enjoy it as well. If I lose it later, I lose it. If i'm able to return to the game again, I'll rebuild and start over just as I did this last time. Gil is too darn easy to make and furnishings too easy to come by.


Yeah, sorry. I am going to judge someone who's going through a hissy fit over losing a house in a game because they weren't playing the game for an extended period time. That's someone who's either very sheltered from the realities of life or extremely shallow. Even in a game, there are times you need to make risk assessments and accept the loss if things don't turn out in your favor. It's not that hard to rebuild in game since that's just a part of playing the game.

I agree there's a need for better instanced housing, which is what apartments are. There should be size options comparable to the house interiors. SE said they're thinking about increasing apartment options and hopefully that's something we'll see next expansion.

I don't think the ward housing needs to be reserved for FCs, though. On most worlds the wards would be half empty if it were FC only because there just aren't that many active FCs that want housing but don't already have it. On Coeurl, we've got over 100 smalls and around a dozen mediums available at any given time. A lot of those smalls have hit minimum price. Any FC here that didn't have a house but wanted one could easily get it. I get the situation on Balmung and a couple of other high pop worlds is different but it could be that SE just can't set things up to allow wards to expand as needed on an individual world basis. Adding more apartment options would probably be the better solution for those worlds.

Housing isn't that limited of a resource on many systems and on the few that it is the problem it will never be fixed until they go to fully instance housing. Right now many systems have hundreds of open houses. Mine has over 500 of all sizes. As long as someone is keeping their subscription current there is no reason to take away their house.

[Mikki]

If someone isn't going to decorate their house at all, nor use it for gardening then honestly they shouldn't have a house. Get an apartment if you want to use your house "differently" like that. My friend only wants the house because he wants it. No other reason. Despite the fact that he doesn't use it. Extending the timer a bit longer won't make a difference. People who are going to quit will quit and it'll be freed up in the span of however long.

You can judge all you want but I don't think it's "throwing a hissy fit" to be upset about losing something you put a lot of time and effort into, in a game that you have paid a lot of money over a long span of time to play. Will you get over it? Of course but that doesn't mean it's not something you'd rather avoid if possible. I mean, if you put over 500 hours into a game and your save file is wiped you'd be pretty irked I'm sure. And yes, actually. I have a friend who goes to India every few years to visit his family. He doesn't really want to go but his mother would be very upset if he didn't and there is no way for him to access the internet when he's there. I also had a friend who went through some really rough stuff and was in the hospital for quite awhile. It happens more often than you would think.

Anyway, if you have so many houses available already what difference does it make if someone gets to keep their house a little longer if they end up not able to login? On most servers except those like Balmung, this is hardly an issue anymore. It's so much less of an issue, in fact, that I'm sure extending the timer wouldn't make that big of an impact either. The timer was paused for months and I still saw houses popping up from people changing servers or deleting characters. And anyway, if someone is quitting for good or for a year then they're gone and that house WILL become available. Just give it time. Eventually someone else will get it.

Indeed apartments are the instanced housing we need but it's not good enough. I wish they would work on fixing that.

Ultimately, I don't think they'll ever fix the system so you don't have anything to worry about. Maybe you can snag a really nice plot 30 in Shirogane someday?
Anyway, I don't really want to argue on this anymore. Clearly we both have different views. That's fine.

[Lucke]

If I'm still paying my subscription I sure do.

No you don't. So what if you are paying a sub, that's irrelevant. If you buy a house but never go inside and use the thing, you don't deserve one. Someone who pays their sub and buys a house and actually visits it every day deserves it far more than you hoarding a plot and never using it. Nothing in the contract you have with SE says anything about deserving/keeping a house just because you pay them 12.99 or whatever.

[Claviusnex]

No you don't. So what if you are paying a sub, that's irrelevant. If you buy a house but never go inside and use the thing, you don't deserve one. Someone who pays their sub and buys a house and actually visits it every day deserves it far more than you hoarding a plot and never using it. Nothing in the contract you have with SE says anything about deserving/keeping a house just because you pay them 12.99 or whatever.

Sure I do especially when the resource isn't constrained. Part of that subscription and keeping it is to pay for server resources which is all a house is. By your rationale SE should delete all user data for users that aren't active whether they pay for a subscription or not. After all unused id's take up precious server resources if you go by SE's statements. I don't know if you have a house or not. Maybe we should say those that don't have one don't deserve one either as they are too slow on the draw or because RL got in their way.

As to the contract nothing in it says SE is obligated to remove a house either. It is up to SE to determine what the housing rules will be and nothing is stopping them from allowing the house to be tied to a subscription or permanently fixing the housing mess other than their own stubbornness.

In the end it is just a bunch of sour grapes by those that don't have a house directing their ire at the wrong parties. It is not those that own houses that are or ever have been the problem. The problem is purely SE's lousy housing implementation and refusal to truly fix. As long as players blame other players SE can continue to turn a blind eye.