Bosses, Crafters, and Materia.

[Jinrya-Geki]

The effects of gear that is dropped from mobs would have to be incredibly better than anything the materia system can offer.

Example: Gloves. Let's say the moogles drop a cool disciple of magic gloves with 20+ magic attack potency. That's worthless, since I could take two materia with +12 magic attack potency making level 5 gloves with 24+ Magic attack Potency.

Sure some gear can't be equipped the materia you want, but that makes any content like that worthless to me. Why do I have to do it more than once for myself?

[derenkirby]

Ermmm the dungeon gear n such is actually very good for how easy it is to get, materia stuff however takes ages and/or a lot of gil. Stop being lazy n wanting the best stuff with no effort put in, if dungeon gear were as good as standard with materia what would be the point of materia, which is one of the best things this game has going for it (gear sink with rewards).

Besides all content has to be balanced for the gear people have anyway, by making materia gear better than the easy to get dungeon gear but have it take a lot longer means that people can have progression n possibly become all powerful (if finding all content easy is fun to you) without making the current endgame too easy for everyone. Perhaps once there's enough beginner endgame stuff in the game then they could balance some stuff for a challenge to people with full sets with full materia.

[NoctisUmbra]

Is it really that difficult to grasp why the horns dropping to have weapons crafted idea is not a good one?

The top gear in this game already comes from crafters. Why do ALL gear have to involve crafters? Plain and simple. Balance.

[Tetsaru]

What I think needs to be done:

1 - Allow materia to be melded to Ifrit, stronghold, raid, etc. gear, so crafted gear doesn't become superior

2 - Allow rare materia of high tier and stats (possibly entirely new kinds?) to drop as well

3 - Remove Dark Matter and other crap "consolation prize" items from said areas, so players don't become discouraged from doing multiple runs

4 - Allow said items to go to the player's loot list, NOT directly to their inventory, so it can be passed to LS/party members who need it most

5 - Allow Ifrit to drop a horn item that crafters can use, possibly make different weapons, tools, or armor out of it other than the original weapons, so that crafters are still viable and can make something no one else can obtain, and/or possibly HQ it

6 - Allow old, lower level U/U gear to be converted into materia so that it doesn't become useless later on

As for U/U gear to only be that way when equipped... part of me says that's a great idea, but part of me also says that if the items would just drop to the loot list as they used to, there wouldn't be much need. That, and if someone could sell an Ifrit weapon on the market, then someone who has a lot of money but never did the Ifrit battle could still obtain it, which shouldn't happen, in my opinion.

[Jinrya-Geki]

Ermmm the dungeon gear n such is actually very good for how easy it is to get, materia stuff however takes ages and/or a lot of gil. Stop being lazy n wanting the best stuff with no effort put in, if dungeon gear were as good as standard with materia what would be the point of materia, which is one of the best things this game has going for it (gear sink with rewards).

Besides all content has to be balanced for the gear people have anyway, by making materia gear better than the easy to get dungeon gear but have it take a lot longer means that people can have progression n possibly become all powerful (if finding all content easy is fun to you) without making the current endgame too easy for everyone. Perhaps once there's enough beginner endgame stuff in the game then they could balance some stuff for a challenge to people with full sets with full materia.

Sorry that I want things to do, instead of just having gear made for me that is better than dropped gear and totally ignoring things like the Iftir battle.

[NoctisUmbra]

What I think needs to be done:

1 - Allow materia to be melded to Ifrit, stronghold, raid, etc. gear, so crafted gear doesn't become superior

No. No need for this. Simply need Blue W gear to have stats at or above the level of a high tier tripe meld.

2 - Allow rare materia of high tier and stats (possibly entirely new kinds?) to drop as well

Defeats the purpose of the materia system and it's intention. Materia is a result of spirit bonding with gear. Getting materia directly through content defeats this purpose. The latest response from the devs also said pretty much this.

3 - Remove Dark Matter and other crap "consolation prize" items from said areas, so players don't become discouraged from doing multiple runs

So what would you prefer be the consolation prize? ...or are you saying we should get a guaranteed drop?

4 - Allow said items to go to the player's loot list, NOT directly to their inventory, so it can be passed to LS/party members who need it most

This I can agree with to a certain extent. The duplicate drops going to waste is quite a strain on the patience of players, and is the only real issue with the current loot system for primals.

5 - Allow Ifrit to drop a horn item that crafters can use, possibly make different weapons, tools, or armor out of it other than the original weapons, so that crafters are still viable and can make something no one else can obtain, and/or possibly HQ it

No, no, no and another no. Leave crafters out of the equation for at least Blue W loot. Allowing for horn drops and HQ on such loot I completely disagree with. Again, crafters already make the best gear in the game. There needs to be some loot players can earn without relying on any crafts.
They already are implementing a better solution - adding a token drop alongside the possible weapon drops. This alone motivates repeated play since you can collect a certain amount of token to then trade in for the drop of your choice.

6 - Allow old, lower level U/U gear to be converted into materia so that it doesn't become useless later on

I wonder why they didn't allow us to convert W gear to begin with. I wouldn't expect better materia from it per say either, just to be able to convert them if we so chose.

[Tetsaru]

No. No need for this. Simply need Blue W gear to have stats at or above the level of a high tier tripe meld.

Perhaps, but giving players the freedom to customize the stats on this gear, as well as pretty much everything else, would be nice in my opinion.

Defeats the purpose of the materia system and it's intention. Materia is a result of spirit bonding with gear. Getting materia directly through content defeats this purpose. The latest response from the devs also said pretty much this.

Eh, perhaps, but until powerleveling becomes fixed, this is pretty much a moot point, because one could probably spritbond their gear at around the same rate a gatherer could find +3 materials that could be used towards making HQ gear. Materia and HQ materials both require luck, both in terms of acquiring the ones you want and in terms of successfully implementing them into gear (the chances of getting multi-melded gear vs. the chances of getting HQ gear from HQ materials, THEN the chance of doing BOTH). Besides the customization involved with materia-melding, they both really boil down to stat-stacking, and with that in mind, I don't see why both materia and HQ materials can't drop.

Also, people can still spiritbond their gear into materia the old-fashioned way; thing is, depending on what gear they have, they may be limited in what materia they can obtain. I was wanting Touch of Rage IV materia for the longest time so I could tank easier, but it took me forever to figure out that you could only get them from belts (which I never converted a lot of), bracelets (never used them), and GLA and MRD weapons (I wasn't going to convert my best weapons). Besides, a lot of materia still sells for dirt-cheap on the markets anyways, unless it's the really rare and sought-after kinds, like Savage Might and Heavens' Fist, etc.

My suggestion is that, if SE wants to implement NEW kinds of materia (which I'm pretty sure they've already said they do), one way they could do it is by making it drop from chests, rather than people having to continue figuring out which gear turns into which materia. And it doesn't necessarily have to be BETTER materia; it could be stuff we don't have yet, like Block Rate, a combination of STR and INT, etc.

So what would you prefer be the consolation prize? ...or are you saying we should get a guaranteed drop?

If the Ifrit fight remains a forced 8-man party, then at least 1 person should be guaranteed an Ifrit weapon, in my opinion, especially considering that there are 8 different things he can drop, and the fight is reasonably difficult. If it can go to the player's loot list, then the party can decide who it goes to. Doing multiple runs over and over to get an item that can be bought at an NPC shop is just frustrating and insulting. If there is a "consolation prize," at least make it something that you can't otherwise obtain, or something useful, like a good chunk of Gil perhaps.

This I can agree with to a certain extent. The duplicate drops going to waste is quite a strain on the patience of players, and is the only real issue with the current loot system for primals.

I just don't know why they'd force dropped items to not go into your Loot List in the first place, it's retarded. What if your inventory was full? What if you were helping someone else get that weapon?

No, no, no and another no. Leave crafters out of the equation for at least Blue W loot. Allowing for horn drops and HQ on such loot I completely disagree with. Again, crafters already make the best gear in the game. There needs to be some loot players can earn without relying on any crafts.

If you read my post, I said "possibly make different weapons, tools, or armor out of it other than the original weapons, so that crafters are still viable and can make something no one else can obtain." By this, I meant being able to make OTHER Ifrit weapons... or how about Ifrit ARMOR, like an Ifrit Scale Mail? An Ifrit SHIELD? How about crafting tools that give enhanced control over fire elements? Or Flaming Arrows for Archers? Something like that. It wouldn't necessarily make crafted gear overpowered because it'd be DIFFERENT gear than what normally drops.

They already are implementing a better solution - adding a token drop alongside the possible weapon drops. This alone motivates repeated play since you can collect a certain amount of token to then trade in for the drop of your choice.

I'm cool with this, but at the same time, it turns the fight into a grind... although I guess that's better than relying on dumb luck waiting for your item to drop. I had enough of that crap doing mission runs in PSU, lol... ><

I wonder why they didn't allow us to convert W gear to begin with. I wouldn't expect better materia from it per say either, just to be able to convert them if we so chose.

Exactly. I have a Warden's Dagger, Flametongue, and other lower-level U/U gear that I don't really need anymore, but at the same time, I'd rather not throw away.

[NoctisUmbra]

Perhaps, but giving players the freedom to customize the stats on this gear, as well as pretty much everything else, would be nice in my opinion.

That's exactly it. Customization. That is why each new content can have weapons of the same level in the magnitude of stats, but have different stats to promote a different style. Say with the example of Ifrit's weapons clearly being focused on higher damage dealing capabilities and fire resistance. Perhaps the Moogle weapons can be more about having enfeebling effects or higher crit rates? Another primal may drop primarily defensive weapons and armors.

This I feel is a delicate point, because if they simply keep Blue W drops oriented in 1 direction and escalate the stats on them with each new content, it makes items from previous content obsolete, and eventually will make all crafted gear obsolete. Being able to add materia to Blue W gear doesn't fix this either, as the next content will povide weapons/armor with higher base stats to put materia on top of.

Therefore when it comes to customization, the design of the Blue W gear and the variety therein is the key point. That's why I say Blue W gear should be strong, but thematic instead of all around better in every scenario.

Eh, perhaps, but until powerleveling becomes fixed, this is pretty much a moot point, because one could probably spritbond their gear at around the same rate a gatherer could find +3 materials that could be used towards making HQ gear. Materia and HQ materials both require luck, both in terms of acquiring the ones you want and in terms of successfully implementing them into gear (the chances of getting multi-melded gear vs. the chances of getting HQ gear from HQ materials, THEN the chance of doing BOTH). Besides the customization involved with materia-melding, they both really boil down to stat-stacking, and with that in mind, I don't see why both materia and HQ materials can't drop.

Also, people can still spiritbond their gear into materia the old-fashioned way; thing is, depending on what gear they have, they may be limited in what materia they can obtain. I was wanting Touch of Rage IV materia for the longest time so I could tank easier, but it took me forever to figure out that you could only get them from belts (which I never converted a lot of), bracelets (never used them), and GLA and MRD weapons (I wasn't going to convert my best weapons). Besides, a lot of materia still sells for dirt-cheap on the markets anyways, unless it's the really rare and sought-after kinds, like Savage Might and Heavens' Fist, etc.

My suggestion is that, if SE wants to implement NEW kinds of materia (which I'm pretty sure they've already said they do), one way they could do it is by making it drop from chests, rather than people having to continue figuring out which gear turns into which materia. And it doesn't necessarily have to be BETTER materia; it could be stuff we don't have yet, like Block Rate, a combination of STR and INT, etc.

It's a matter of design principal. It doesn't matter if it's very easy, it is still the only way to obtain materia. It is the purpose of the materia system. The minute content that rewards materia is introduced, it will hinder many of the benefits of having the materia system - such as much higher demand for various gear.

If the Ifrit fight remains a forced 8-man party, then at least 1 person should be guaranteed an Ifrit weapon, in my opinion, especially considering that there are 8 different things he can drop, and the fight is reasonably difficult. If it can go to the player's loot list, then the party can decide who it goes to. Doing multiple runs over and over to get an item that can be bought at an NPC shop is just frustrating and insulting. If there is a "consolation prize," at least make it something that you can't otherwise obtain, or something useful, like a good chunk of Gil perhaps.

A guaranteed drop is never ok - not for content of this type. I'd understand if it was a very long raid that took an hour or so to complete and was very difficult and time consuming - but for something that can be repeated so readily, a guaranteed drop rate will simply make the items commonplace.

The existence of RNG is fine. It's the 2nd layer RNG that allows for duplicates that is stressful. Adding the token alongside the possible weapon drops fixes the issue in my opinion. Allows for people to get weapons as they do now, yet adds a layer of control that gives value to repeated farming.

If you read my post, I said "possibly make different weapons, tools, or armor out of it other than the original weapons, so that crafters are still viable and can make something no one else can obtain." By this, I meant being able to make OTHER Ifrit weapons... or how about Ifrit ARMOR, like an Ifrit Scale Mail? An Ifrit SHIELD? How about crafting tools that give enhanced control over fire elements? Or Flaming Arrows for Archers? Something like that. It wouldn't necessarily make crafted gear overpowered because it'd be DIFFERENT gear than what normally drops.

Crafters are already very viable and can make things people who don't have their craft leveled cannot. If they were to design more thematic gear based on content, I'd rather all of it came from that content. Perhaps add conditions to the primal battles that must be fulfilled to unlock certain drops that otherwise will not appear in the final chest. Promote strategic play and variety within the same content for different loot.

Again I'm not against some NMs or whatnot dropping special crafting mats that can lead to the crafting of Unique Green W gear. I simply don't think all W gear should come from the hands of crafters - that Blue W gear should cntinue to not be meldable and offer very appealing stats.

On the other hand I've supported Green W gear being meldable since the beginning. It wold give the content that drops the Green W gear or the mat needed to make it much more repeat value due to busted melds, thus not making said content obsolete in the face of content that gives Blue W gear. It would also have the potential to produce the best gear in the game - and doing so would require the effort of Battle, Gathering and crafting classes. This I feel is fitting for being the best.

[Altanas]

quick 2 thoughts as I only have a minute lol

1. Maybe allow current Unique/etc/non-convertible/non-meldable gear to

a) convert into new types of materia that dont exist currently and never will outside of those gears, that will get people to reuse old content to get drops over and over?

b) remove materia by slot restrictions for that gear and allow it meldable, so any materia type can be attached to that gear -> keeps that gear held in high regard over crafted items?; or allow them meldable but limited to the type of stat already on the gear.

[NoctisUmbra]

quick 2 thoughts as I only have a minute lol

1. Maybe allow current Unique/etc/non-convertible/non-meldable gear to

a) convert into new types of materia that dont exist currently and never will outside of those gears, that will get people to reuse old content to get drops over and over?

b) remove materia by slot restrictions for that gear and allow it meldable, so any materia type can be attached to that gear -> keeps that gear held in high regard over crafted items?; or allow them meldable but limited to the type of stat already on the gear.

a) Same kinds of materia is fine. The choice to make any gear into materia should be there, but not expected. Exclusive materia is silly.

b) The slot restrictions make for planning or require strategic thinking instead of spamming 1 materia type per set. Also makes certain dropped gear with stats on them that cannot be obtained through materia valuable - such as a Sipahi Turban.