An alternative to parsing?

[Ovenmitts]

I have to respectfully disagree. The greys that I've been getting lately, I personally view as an indicator that I'm a bad player. Which is why, again, I want something more than just the SSS dummy. Now, yes, it is true that currently in the raid tier, everybody who is hitting high numbers are close to BiS. That is true. But when one struggles to break 4k of damage, on a job that they do know for the most part minus a couple of SB changes, I have to question my own ability as a player. But again, the thread is not about me - it's about alternate means of parsers. If they gave the SSS dummies some QoL improvements, maybe even have an active DPS meter along with them (exclusively), I could see that helping.

Looking at your public logs, yeah. You are something else. The fact you admit it so openly is refreshing. But have you done anything to change that? Admitting something is one thing, but constantly pushing it off as someone else's problem is another. If it's always someone else's problem, what happens when you get a party full of people with that mentality?

Point is, you don't have to remain a gray forever. You have a blue and a green in finger painting. As I said, there is always room for improvement. The best place to start is to work on that SSS dummy if a console player and strive to destroy it. That is especially true if you're in 350+ gear. If you have a friend that uses meters, ask them for help. Ask a mentor for advice. Compare notes. You know, help each other out. That goes for not just you but people looking to improve in general.

I play on PS4 so all of my logs are recorded by someone else. Even then, I'm not perfect of course and I strive to get better with what I have to work with. If this game had an ingame meter, that'd definitely be a more definitive way of knowing what's up, but so far the SSS dummies have done me well as a melee DPS.

[AppleJinx]

Ask a mentor for advice.

When you say mentors I hope you don't mean in game mentors. The balance discord is a great place to get help and improve on any battle jobs in the game.

[KaivaC]

Looking at your public logs, yeah. You are something else. The fact you admit it so openly is refreshing. But have you done anything to change that? Admitting something is one thing, but constantly pushing it off as someone else's problem is another. If it's always someone else's problem, what happens when you get a party full of people with that mentality?

Point is, you don't have to remain a gray forever. You have a blue and a green in finger painting. As I said, there is always room for improvement. The best place to start is to work on that SSS dummy if a console player and strive to destroy it. That is especially true if you're in 350+ gear. If you have a friend that uses meters, ask them for help. Ask a mentor for advice. Compare notes. You know, help each other out. That goes for not just you but people looking to improve in general.

I play on PS4 so all of my logs are recorded by someone else. Even then, I'm not perfect of course and I strive to get better with what I have to work with. If this game had an ingame meter, that'd definitely be a more definitive way of knowing what's up, but so far the SSS dummies have done me well as a melee DPS.

Umm...I just called myself a trash player twice now? How is that pushing it on someone else? lol Besides, what is the point in lying? Plenty of people think I'm not good anyhow, so I am just kinda accepting the majority opinion. Am I trying to improve? Yeah, I've been trying for a little while now, finding a job I'm comfortable with using. But I'm not sure where this part about me (or maybe not me, but someone else) pushing this onto someone else came out at. Hell, I've openly said I don't believe I'm anywhere close to being a good player in another thread of mines a short little while ago haha.

But again, the purpose of this thread is not me asking for help. It's discussing parsers...or rather alternatives. Pretty sure we can get more than just the SSS dummies if the devs put their mind to it. Doesn't necessarily have to even be an actual parse, as I mentioned a page back. I'd be more than satisifed with what I mentioned a page ago.

Let us chat about that, yes?

[Fhaerron]

Umm...I just called myself a trash player twice now? How is that pushing it on someone else? lol Besides, what is the point in lying? Plenty of people think I'm not good anyhow, so I am just kinda accepting the majority opinion. Am I trying to improve? Yeah, I've been trying for a little while now, finding a job I'm comfortable with using. But I'm not sure where this part about me (or maybe not me, but someone else) pushing this onto someone else came out at. Hell, I've openly said I don't believe I'm anywhere close to being a good player in another thread of mines a short little while ago haha.

But again, the purpose of this thread is not me asking for help. It's discussing parsers...or rather alternatives. Pretty sure we can get more than just the SSS dummies if the devs put their mind to it. Doesn't
necessarily have to even be an actual parse, as I mentioned a page back. I'd be more than satisifed with what I mentioned a page ago.

Let us chat about that, yes?

To go a bit deeper on the 'off-topic' part and directly to you,

You worry too much. When new stuff drops you should have the absolute minimum at least, then aim for the recommended.
As your gear improves and your knowledge of the fight (when to use certain buffs to get max duration for example) your DPS will improve.

It's good to always aim higher, I do this too I just want to keep improving.
Get some help, talk with pro's go over your logs with them and see what's wrong or maybe there's something you can do differently?
There's always going to be people with more, that's true for me as well no matter the gearscore or how hard I push there's always some 'pro' player out there with more.

It's a game, you play this for fun, don't let it cause stress.
You have the minimum, you have the required, you can clear it. Always try to reach higher but don't let it make you feel bad.

This isn't specifically aimed at this particular case but more in general because I've seen you worry too much while you're doing fine honestly.

You are not a "trash" player.

I'd gladly take you with me any day.

[Shurrikhan]

If raiders would leave without being able to parse, that right there tells me they aren't all that great of players to begin with. If you NEED a third party tool, then perhaps you need to get better at the game. A parser is a crutch used to counter their lack of skill.

The tool does not benefit any given attempt, itself.

It does, however, inform for purposes of improvement. And with improvement comes culpability. When damage has been lost to mistakes or optimizations not yet made, the solution is in identifying the problems (who are particular players at particular events in the fight, not just players, and not just events).

If the majority of my party told me they refused to be parsed, my assumption would be simple: they wish to gag order any actual evidence by which to make progress, out of fear of being held accountable proportionate to their success or lack thereof. Sure, some of the information to measure success is already there, but it is generally insufficient to point out empirically areas of available improvement. If my team is selfish enough to deny the group that just so that they won't feel a small pang of guilt when they screw up their CDs or the like, that's a community not a community I'd want any part of. And so I'd leave, not because I'm not able to use a given tool, but because those I'd otherwise be running with demand that it is more important that we remain blinded than the group improves, presumably on the basis that one man's unwarranted guilt outweighs an entire group's potential for helpful analysis.

You may as well join a book club but refuse to hear any opinion varying from your own. Why would I want to run with anyone holding such a counter-intuitive mindset?

Edit: To be clear, I don't like being held accountable by an outlier any more than the next guy, or even having my prospects questioned or participation declined over past histories (if that should ever happen) that I may have since improved beyond. My every fflogs parse, for instance, are 100% from trap parties, uploaded without my even knowing, and average some 15% lower in percentile than my norms when my raid lead tosses them up temporarily to see how we match up over given pieces of the fights. But over the course of a fight, where it IS wholly relevant? What could possibly be the problem with being shown as performing poorly if you are performing poorly? It's not going to be taken as precedent for another fight with divergent circumstances; that information doesn't leave the instance, or likely even the pull. It's just pure, accurate feedback. So why not let it inform you so you can more quickly improve?

[KaldeaSahaline]

It's pretty common place for some jobs to be unable to clear their SSS dummy even in the hands of a world class progression player upon a new tier's release.

It's not a new tiers release though and we're talking the O5S dummy. There's very little excuse to not be able to clear it right now, unless you're literally min ilvl (which given FF14's design is exceptionally unlikely).

I'm being carried because I can't clear a dummy?

Consistently in the 1% - 5% range, based on the last several times I've fought the v5s dummy.

Looking at one of your more recent logs, yeah probably. It sucks to hear, but if you extrapolate your performance across your entire team, you have to ask yourself - would you clear under those circumstances? If the answer is no, then you did not pull equivalent weight, thus you were carried.

What ilvl and job are we talking about for context?

To all those people saying they're getting negative reactions after giving advice to other people, I'd like to ask a question :
Are you telling them this in a nice way, like "You should use spell A, you shouldn't do this or that..."
Or are you more like : "Git gud noob !"

I've said it before. It doesn't matter how polite you are. How nice and sugary you word it, or many many cute catgirl meme's with winks and thumbs up you post; people are abrasive when offered advice that they're not interested in hearing. If someone WANTS advice it's fine, but most people don't.

If you do mechanics right, clear the boss, but do not manage to clear the dummy it doesn't mean you were carried.

This is actually the literal definition of carried. Try not to get hung up on negative connotations and feelings and look at it objectively. If you do not have the necessary throughput the game dictates (barring the isolated examples of min ilvl beginning progression), then you did not do all of the mechanics right. You failed the DPS mechanic.

If you fail equivalency (which is the measure of if everyone performed at your level would you have cleared) you were carried. There are obviously different degrees of carried though; i.e. Kaiva vs. a buyer. Both carried, but one considerably more so than the other.

I'll give additional context from WoW - I sell Mythic+ runs there. I have buyers who are content to simply AFK and let us do all the work. I have buyers who insist they want to try and contribute. In the end, they're almost all generally carried (I've had a few buyers who pulled their own weight, obviously less than us, but had they had a team of equals they'd have been fine, thus passing equivalency).

And just look at how the raid community attacks each other with their parses already.

Just curious - where did you derive this insight from? It wasn't actual experience in FF14 (according to FFLogs you don't raid), and considering my anecdotal experience states otherwise, I'd be curious if you could quantify it.

I have to respectfully disagree. The greys that I've been getting lately, I personally view as an indicator that I'm a bad player. Which is why, again, I want something more than just the SSS dummy.

I'm all for a better tool (I'm in favor of a 100% official unmitigated open full party parser), but I wanted to chime in here. You are a lower skilled player (bad is relative). That's ok. There's nothing WRONG with being lower skilled as long as you respect that.

You're very good at that (nowadays) so the easy next step is simply improving from there.

If you were interested in getting better at PLD and were on my DC, I'd personally help you get where you want to get. I'll gladly extend that offer to any other PLDs on Primal should they want help.

[Waliel]

On FFLogs there is a "replay" feature that allows people to watch a fight that was uploaded in the most minimalistic of terms. You are able to see when people move, when the mob moves, damage done, damage taken, healing done/received, abilities used by the mobs, etc.

So, yes, you can actually see who is not attending to mechanics using the data from FFLOGs, replay function, and deductive reasoning.

Not to mention that if you're not doing mechanics, you either die, get a debuff or nothing happens to you when something is supposed to, and all of that shows up in the parse.

Which is all fine and dandy, but SSS doesn't account for doing said mechanics of the fight. You could meet the DPS checks on Byakko EX or Shinryu EX just fine on a training dummy because nothing, and I repeat, nothing is getting in your way. Now, try meeting the DPS checks while dodging AoE's, other people, aligning stack markers, etc.

Which is why the SSS dummy requires higher DPS than the actual fight. It's more of a gear and basic rotation check.

[Moogly]

I've said it before. It doesn't matter how polite you are. How nice and sugary you word it, or many many cute catgirl meme's with winks and thumbs up you post; people are abrasive when offered advice that they're not interested in hearing. If someone WANTS advice it's fine, but most people don't.

Well from my experience, I always tell people nicely, and it usually goes smoothly, I'd say, 80% of the time with green sprouts.
Only will mentor have a hard time accepting their errors - to a point where I don't even tell them anymore, except if they are tanking and not managing at all.
Oh, I had to tell you this too, but ever since I macroed (Protect) /pplease, I get instant protect every time healer forgets to, so catgirl winks work !
I really do think communication is essential.
And I emphasize on the point that you really need to pay attention on how things are said and who you're telling it to.
For example, if you start advising nicely someone, but then end with a tiny sarcastic note, it can break everything you've said.
This is part of my everyday irl work, that's why I can assure you this is true.

This is actually the literal definition of carried. Try not to get hung up on negative connotations and feelings and look at it objectively. If you do not have the necessary throughput the game dictates (barring the isolated examples of min ilvl beginning progression), then you did not do all of the mechanics right. You failed the DPS mechanic.

The thing is that in this case, I could say, if you fail to dodge one aoe, you were carried too...
If you died on the first clear, thus spent 90 second with the rez debuff and most likely failed the dps check, you were carried...
I remember someone criticizing me at the beginning of stormblood, after looking at my log of my first o1s clear, saying I was carried cause I didn't use a single holy spirit... By that time, I was so focused on mechs (and actually hated that new caster rotation...), I also remember our pug barely clearing it... But as MT that time, I really have a hard time understanding how I couldve been carried... I sure was well below average dps at that time (think I pulled something around 2.5K at that time), but as a MT, if I kept on failing and dying, I doubt our pug wouldve gotten its clear. I also remember, no one was above 4K when we cleared. I haven't done much savage raiding in ff, but from what I've done and heard around, dps checks aren't that bad.
That brings us to the fact that you also should take into account in which context you're playing.
Are you in a world first race ?
Then yes, any failure, be it dps check or fight mechanics, will make you a carried player.
But shall you apply those standards as common then 99% of the player base would be carried !
If any player not doing as good as the world first is carried, then next time I'll group, I'll be sure to do my carried player job to its best by jumping off the arena on pull !

I dont want to hurt anyone, but I actually feel like there's a lot of condescending feeling when people point out dps. Even though it may not be the case, that is how most people will feel.

[HyoMinPark]

If raiders would leave without being able to parse, that right there tells me they aren't all that great of players to begin with. If you NEED a third party tool, then perhaps you need to get better at the game. A parser is a crutch used to counter their lack of skill.

I can't even with this post. The sheer amount of ignorance and just...wrongness...of it is astounding.

That's not the purpose of SSS. The purpose of SSS is to test weather or not the rotation you are using is enough to pass the dps checks and contribute to damage in a boss situation.

It's not a new tiers release though and we're talking the O5S dummy. There's very little excuse to not be able to clear it right now, unless you're literally min ilvl (which given FF14's design is exceptionally unlikely).

I may not be the best BRD and I prefer to think I'm at least not trash, but before I cleared God Kefka, I could not reliably kill the V8S dummy on time; several times it had a couple percentages of health left. With only half my BiS. Then I cleared God Kefka no problems. And I like to think I was not carried since I netted a blue on my first clear. It certainly wasn't a rotational problem on my part.

SSS is still a horrible judge of readiness for a given fight.

[KaivaC]

I'm on mobile, so no quoting here, but @kaldea, I'm on monk. I only pull out pld to help tank, but when I'm doing that, dps is not my concern. Same with WAR. We have different views on what a bad player is. To me, being lower skilled is the same as being bad. It's primarily the purpose of me starting this thread.