Black magic...kinda sucks

[Malkria]

You just can't harass people in game about their damage. There's nothing against using them for personal improvement.

Claiming that someone needs to present parser data to prove they are a top DPS, or their opinion doesn't matter, is a form of harrasment and furthermore intellectual dishonesty. While I could potentially get you banned by using this argument to the moderators, they again probably could only ban you from the conversation, and that in itself would be intellectual dishonesty. Plus, I would consider a forum ban a slap on the wrist and only an actual game ban carrying any weight.

So you would report someone with the hopes they are banned for simply pointing out Black Mages should be near top DPS to actually have a believable grasp on the job?

No, like I said I would report someone for harassment. Trying to silence a voice you don't like by claiming they need to present parser data to have an opinion I feel is a form of harrasment and as I stated intellectual dishonesty. Furthermore as I have demonstrated via logic, there are plenty of cases in RL and in professional settings where people make important decisions and hold opinions others find value in without having done or taken part in whatever field they make policies about to critiquing the works of others. To argue that someone must master something to hold an opinion is simply not true, and by societies across the world not held to be true. To argue it is true here is both a childish argument and a blatent attempt to silence a voice that is saying something you don't like.

He means if the player playing BLM is of equivalent gear to his party members, if they are doing less than the other party members, then they are not doing well.

Fine, but that doesn't negate someone from understanding how a job works. You don't need to be top DPS to have a grasp of a job. Furthermore to claim such is rather nebulous in itself, because at what point do you suddenly know the job? If you do better in a pug? If you place in the top 10? 100? What if someone were 11 does their opinion suddenly not matter?

Don't need a medical degree to think the current methods of heart transplant surgery are flawed either. I can also just run over to the podiatrist any time I need a crown in my teeth or a cavity filling too.

Wow that is a stretch. First off by your analogy that would be like a lawyer arguing a doctor didn't do their job right during a surgery....except that is exactly who (in America at least) is going to be arguing malpractice suits. Even if that lawyer has consulted experts it is ultimately them who are arguing the case, and likely as someone who has never seen the inside of an operating room outside of being a patient themselves. Care to try again with the crazy analogies?

[Kabooa]

Fine, but that doesn't negate someone from understanding how a job works. You don't need to be top DPS to have a grasp of a job. Furthermore to claim such is rather nebulous in itself, because at what point do you suddenly know the job? If you do better in a pug? If you place in the top 10? 100? What if someone were 11 does their opinion suddenly not matter?

You lose credibility when you demonstrate a lack of proficiency and blame that as the Class's issue.

If you "know how the class works" but can't make it work, that's a -lack of proficiency-, and demanding the job change to accommodate said lack of proficiency is the point where the opinion stops mattering.

[Dualgunner]

Wow that is a stretch. First off by your analogy that would be like a lawyer arguing a doctor didn't do their job right during a surgery....except that is exactly who (in America at least) is going to be arguing malpractice suits. Even if that lawyer has consulted experts it is ultimately them who are arguing the case, and likely as someone who has never seen the inside of an operating room outside of being a patient themselves. Care to try again with the crazy analogies?

That's exactly it, though: the lawyer has to consult experts. This is why students have to cite papers in research, because compared to the people they are researching, they are laymen. Until you have proven proficiency, and see Kabooa regarding that, you are a student who needs to cite their sources because we cannot trust that you are skilled enough with the job to actually know what you're talking about.

[HyoMinPark]

Claiming that someone needs to present parser data to prove they are a top DPS, or their opinion doesn't matter, is a form of harrasment and furthermore intellectual dishonesty.

No, like I said I would report someone for harassment. Trying to silence a voice you don't like by claiming they need to present parser data to have an opinion I feel is a form of harrasment and as I stated intellectual dishonesty. Furthermore as I have demonstrated via logic, there are plenty of cases in RL and in professional settings where people make important decisions and hold opinions others find value in without having done or taken part in whatever field they make policies about to critiquing the works of others.

When it come to claims that BLM is or is not at the top of the DPS charts, yes, you need to provide numerical data to prove your point. A statement with no proof is just that: a statement with no proof. If you are discussing damage, and which job is at the top, you absolutely need a parser to do so. Because how else are you to know? You can't make a guess and proclaim it as accurate without the numbers.

Reporting someone because they mention numerical proof in the form of parser numbers is nothing more than an act of pettiness on your part, and it shows you don't actually want to have a discussion. You speak of people silencing your voice, but you would be doing just the same.

Fine, but that doesn't negate someone from understanding how a job works. You don't need to be top DPS to have a grasp of a job.

No, but being max level and having experience in all forms of content, not just dungeons, helps. You were not even level 70 when you made this thread. You have no experience in any content outside of dungeons on BLM. How are you able to give a comprehensive understanding of how the job functions in all types of content? BLM is a different kind of beast in Extreme trials, Savage and Ultimate. Sure, maybe you could give a vague idea on how the job functions in dungeons...but that isn't content design to actually test the limits of a job.

As I also said before, BLM does not need the best gear to maximize its damage (nor does it need crafters at max either, or max spell speed—melds are preference-based, and someone already pointed out before that a crit-based melded gearset is a viable option). But if you are up against people of a similar gear level, or people with only a few item level's worth of difference, if you are proficient at the job, you will be beating them in terms of personal damage. Only if there is a massive gear gap would they be ahead of you; and even that would be debatable on some jobs. But if you and I were to be in a group together, and you were also ilvl 370, I would expect you to do more damage than me (BRD) on BLM. If you do not, then there is a serious issue with your understanding of the job. Which then undermines your "I am proficient at this job" declaration.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No, like I said I would report someone for harassment. Trying to silence a voice you don't like by claiming they need to present parser data to have an opinion I feel is a form of harrasment and as I stated intellectual dishonesty. Furthermore as I have demonstrated via logic, there are plenty of cases in RL and in professional settings where people make important decisions and hold opinions others find value in without having done or taken part in whatever field they make policies about to critiquing the works of others. To argue that someone must master something to hold an opinion is simply not true, and by societies across the world not held to be true. To argue it is true here is both a childish argument and a blatent attempt to silence a voice that is saying something you don't like.

First and foremost, even presuming an incredibly broad definition, it remains quite a reach to apply harassment to simply asking for parse data. Regardless, no one has cited mastery as the prerequisite for having a debate. I certainly don't require a psychology degree to offer advice. That being said, if my advice sounds wrong, misinformed or otherwise lacking to someone with actual expertise, I'd look silly arguing with them. You have argued with career Black Mages, insisting the job plays contrary to the standard norm, incorrectly insist Black Mage wants for mobility, incorrectly claim its damage is lower than the other casters and the only evidence you bring to the table is fifty random people from your FC.

People aren't silencing your voice. They are proving you wrong. Now you can argue Black Mage's playgame isn't fun, but that is strictly opinion based. You can't seem to separate the two.

[Zerathor]

Claiming that someone needs to present parser data to prove they are a top DPS, or their opinion doesn't matter, is a form of harrasment and furthermore intellectual dishonesty. While I could potentially get you banned by using this argument to the moderators, they again probably could only ban you from the conversation, and that in itself would be intellectual dishonesty. Plus, I would consider a forum ban a slap on the wrist and only an actual game ban carrying any weight.

It's adorable that you keep threatening that you can get me banned, but don't (you can't). It's like you understand that you're wrong but want to assume you have some power in your very, VERY wrong arguments. With each reply, people will only take you less seriously, and I'm not sure if you comprehend that.

I'd suggest you stop making assertions on things you don't understand in this game, and either learn yourself, or ask advice to grow on issues you're experiencing. Or find a different job.