Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[BillyKaplan]

I find it weird how you'll say a tank is lazy for not using a combo that's detrimental to the tank

The thing it's most detrimental to is their personal dps which in most df content doesn't matter. And if it does matter, then dps are so lacking they probably won't rip anyway unless the tank didn't use ANY enmity skills ever and therefore it's not a part of our scenario.

I'll do the extra enmity combos as needed in DF content

Then you're not the tank I'm talking about. A tank's goal is first and foremost aggro management vs. two skills that DPS might not even put on their hotbar through role-action. I will cross them over because I know I can run into an undergeared tank but if an on-gear tank can't be bothered with doing their job not sure why it's expected of me to pick up the slack. I'm not saying 'do nothing but your agro combo in tank stance', but if a tank pulls in dps stance and do their dps combo only... well then.

[Alaray]

I'm more saying if you can help at no personal cost, then you should and not heft the blame solely on the tank if the abilities are unused since there are some who anticipate and plan for their usage. Especially if a DPS enmity is running extremely high, they've used nothing to mitigate it, and the PLD is in a Holy Spirit window (or a Warrior is needing to reapply Storm's Eye, or a Dark Knight is hurting for MP during downtime of their CD's). Even in DF content, it really sucks to have to cut out a burst window, relinquish a buff, or lose a lot of resource generation to compensate for someone who doesn't care.

I've had DF NIN's complain about enmity they were coming up on, but then learned they never utilized Shade, Diversion, or Smoke Screen at any point. At that point it's not my fault, even if I was doing damage combinations, if someone ignores a core component to their class/job/role in the group, even in DF. (As, in a tank position, a lot of times I'm anticipating them to actually play their class and understand how it operates at a base level). I've come to realize no one really cares, much if at all, so I'll bite the bullet. But it's still asinine to be blamed for something when it's not solely resting on a single person's shoulders.

And I'm probably a little saltier since players will demand I sit in Grit. Which I will never do for an entire encounter. (As in, having Grit up the entire time)

[WilhelmWhite]

Worst of all, all of these new players, regardless of role, seem to be completely mute and disregard anything said in chat. I'm fairly certain most of them are English-speakers. If you try to give any advice or ask them to do something differently, you might as well be talking to a wall.

^^^^^^This is more frustrating than anything. I'm totally fine with needing to explain things or talk through something, but that person needs to actually respond. There was a similar situation in a Copperbell run, in which a healer was running ahead, and dying instantly... repeatedly. They never spoke, they just used emotes......

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Hello. ^^ I saw you there as well while we were killing Wraiths for Panini~. Nice Ultimate Axe One day I will get my clear too~.

Yeah, it was pretty fun when I strolled in and saw Cassandra tanking wraiths and was like "oh, that name sounds familiar." and then I noticed you and was like "oh, it's them!".

and thanks. Just gotta stay determined! Ultimate may be long, but it's absolutely amazing when you finally triumph with your heat beating 100 times a second from the last phase.

[AxHell]

Newbie not answering

Call me a jerk all you want (I fully admit it) but the funniest and most satisfying thing is (after oh so many attempts to get their attention by talking to them in their language) to see them lose their marbles and explode with rage in the chat.

Happened to me once with a MNK who was like your healer. The rest of us aggreed to never revive him after the third time.

The salt was delicious.

[Makeda]

RDM has the lowest personal dps of DPS jobs - 100th best parse is 6.1k.

WAR has the best personal dps of any Tank - 100th best parse is 4.8k.

SCH has the best personal dps of any Healer - 100th best parse is 2.9k.

Each of those is from God Kefka player damage rankings (used 100th slot to filter out the super cheesed parses) and using the dps class with the least dps and the support roles with the highest I am giving you the best possible chance at being proven right and you're still coming up short.

Your hyperbolic examples undermine the rest of your post because they don't have any facts behind them.

The fact that you even know or bother to parse the damage of tanks and healers actually makes my point.

Exact numbers though, are meaningless. That's why I gave such a wide and arbitrary range... The excessive focus this game and it's community have on tank and healer DPS however is meaningful. It is exactly what drives all these stories of tanks in DPS stance - they've been trained to focus on their DPS over all else... so they do... to frequently bad result.

Your numbers actually point out how wrong the community is for this focus. If those are the numbers they actually turn out... then it is fully wrong to be trying to get tanks and healers to ever go into the DPS stances / rotations. The gain for it is just meaningless.

Yet if you go through this thread, and then go to the tank and healer forums - most of the drama is about the non-DPS roles not DPSing enough... or about the mess that results when they try to follow the demand that they DPS more...

So when I say the community expects them to do 60-80% of the DPS... I'm not wrong... even if that number is not actually reachable, the demand is there.

This really isn't helped by the game design encouraging this mentality. The tanks here are seriously soft. I didn't reference the Brute from City of Villains by accident. The tanks here really don't handle incoming damage very well at all compared to other trinity games. And the healers don't have the same level of throughput for healing - there's better AoE and lesser single focused healing than in games that have raid sizes of 20-40 people - because there is more widespread damage here and less 'tank busting' damage.

What's curious is the community spends so much effort demanding more DPS out of tanks and healers in one set of forums, and then comes here and complains when those same said tanks and healers try to meet that demand, and, as your numbers note, fail to do it but, as the complaints note - also end up failing at their intended role...

(I happen to like DPSing on a healer... just last night I went into a rant at my WoW raid group over how Blizzard seems to only know how to design fun healer classes for Overwatch, and fails at it for WoW... You want to see healers that are meant to DPS a lot - look at the Overwatch ones, and then realize that at various points in time designs like that have been present in MMOs - like the Cleric in Neverwinter, the Warden in ESO, the now removed fistweaver of WoW, or even the still remaining but highly quirked out and complicated disc priest of WoW - those are all examples of blending the DPS and Healing smoothly where a player needs to do both, and does their role better by doing both - rather then becoming the source of complaints in other forums for 'going off role'. Though I'd argue the current disc priest of WoW is a poor example of this - the way it blends is distracting rather then smooth - and almost identical concept is found in Moira of Overwatch, using DPS to enable the next cast to heal... but plays smoothly).

[Makeda]

While these tank(s) are not in the right for swearing at you, neither are you for being petty and avoiding your emnity dumps because they won't do countdowns.

I really don't bother with countdowns in any MMO that I tank in because I'm so used to seeing 'go go go' on my screen that I've just started... going...

I'm a lot more concerned after all... about seeing those procs fall off of the other DPS than giving one person time to set up the position of their coffee cup beside their keyboard.

Most MMOs have a 'marker point' to 'be in the fight'. Super obvious in this game with the glowing line on the ground. As soon as I see everyone on the right side of that line I pull. On the other hand I have been known to just get up from my keyboard and literally walk away when one person wouldn't walk over that line before the fight...

(of course if we're sitting in front of a boss after a wipe or after a long walk to get there and I know everything's worn off... that's a different story).

[xkazh]

Today my boyfriend and I met Wilhelm White and ran 70 roulette

Kugane is a lot of fun with a lovely Astrologian feeding me spear cards <3

[KaldeaSahaline]

Exact numbers though, are meaningless. That's why I gave such a wide and arbitrary range.

This just in - exact numbers and data are meaningless and made up generalizations/numbers are NOT.

That's priceless.

Your numbers actually point out how wrong the community is for this focus. If those are the numbers they actually turn out... then it is fully wrong to be trying to get tanks and healers to ever go into the DPS stances / rotations. The gain for it is just meaningless.

Are you posting on an alt or do you genuinely have 0 end game experience in FF14? I'm curious.

Speaking personally, I would hate to do 25%+ less damage. That's a fairly significant burden for my teams DPS to make up.

So when I say the community expects them to do 60-80% of the DPS... I'm not wrong... even if that number is not actually reachable, the demand is there.

Please cite a source that says that the community demands that healers are expected to 60-80% of a DPS's output.

[NephthysVasudan]

While these tank(s) are not in the right for swearing at you, neither are you for being petty and avoiding your emnity dumps because they won't do countdowns.

Agreed...not to mention the holier than thou attitude on "dps stats". Which I find is completely unrelated and totally "convenient" to suit argumentation.