Another WHM chicken little sees the sky falling. The sky is an AST.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I think the problem is, people are focusing too much on WHM staying viable to content, not what would make them competitive with the others.

No one is arguing the viability of WHM, we all know it can clear content. But what about it's lack of any special raid utility? It's useless lily mechanic and trait that still hasn't been looked at while both other healers had theirs improved? While AST and SCH are constantly getting fine tuned over and over again, WHMs continue to sit on this useless job mechanic that is not rewarding at all. Do we need changes to this to clear content? Do we need this to meet a DPS check? No, but it's the same type of QoL changes that other healers have been getting that could benefit us just as well.

As far as their identity, a pure healer design just cannot work in a game where all healers are being designed to heal content just fine without a WHMs "big heals". Their identity is becoming redundant, and while it will definitely remain viable, it's not very competitive for their role. What exactly are we bringing to a raid outside of our personal DPS that is being beat by both healers on average?

[Miste]

As far as their identity, a pure healer design just cannot work in a game where all healers are being designed to heal content just fine without a WHMs "big heals". Their identity is becoming redundant, and while it will definitely remain viable, it's not very competitive for their role. What exactly are we bringing to a raid outside of our personal DPS that is being beat by both healers on average?

None of these things are ASTs fault though. It is pointless to try to tear AST down and deny them any QoL or adjustments at all in order to fix WHM's issues.

Like "AST/SCH shouldn't get any adjustments because I think WHM needs them", I mean instead of saying that you could make a thread saying "With the upcoming AST/SCH changes can WHM also get some adjustments and/or can the DEV team please change the lily system".

Ask for what you want for WHM and keep trying and getting everyone's attention about it. Just coming up in arms only when another healer gets any adjustments isn't the best way to go about it imo. If WHMs want changes then create threads about changing WHM not threads focused on AST/SCH adjustments.

You have to make a new thread and petition SE to come up with a new idea to change WHMs gauge/lillies etc into something more fun and more useful. If I could come up with some cool idea I'd totally ask for it since I agree about the lily system being useless, but it is SEs job to be creative and come up with good ideas.

Only SCH beats WHM pDPS on average which imo maybe it shouldn't, but it does make the SCH+WHM comp pretty strong since they both have strong DPS so now that I think about it...ehh maybe its fine? I guess Noct ASTs would disagree...I just don't play Noct unless I have to so I don't have much opinion there.

Average AST RNG versus WHM pDPS is quite likely very close in contribution going by the comparisons I looked at of average card draws over a fight timeline. I took like fights where you got maybe 3-4 balances out of 8-9 possibilities and WHM can match that average with their pDPS. The skill needed is different that is true since AST is harder to play imo, but it definitely shows that WHM can match contribution with AST.

WHM does still have stronger healing than AST by quite a bit, which helps in harder savage turns, so AST has a higher learning curve for healing content efficiently. So I don't agree all healers have just as much healing power, but AST is fine and doesn't need healing buffs imo since WHM should be #1 for healing power.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Ask for what you want for WHM and keep trying and getting everyone's attention about it.

I'll be honest. I don't even bother making threads anymore, because every single time a WHM does, it's instantly shot down with "WHM is still viable", even though that was never the point anyone ever tried to make.
I would love to make a thread about how WHMs second Lily trait is still horrendously mediocre, or how Lilies, our main mechanic of stormblood, is now so useless it really should be taken off your screen as Divine Bension isn't even tied to it anymore, it's just CD reduction, something both AST and SCH has but more efficient. Or how SCH and AST are creeping up in personal dps every single patch while already completely blowing us out of the water in raid DPS.

But I mean, I'm truly sick of the back and forth debating of it all at this point. Besides, it's not like the NA forum's voice is heard unless we truly disrupt the board like when WHM was about to release a walking disaster in 4.0, the true feedback that's taken into consideration is in the JP forums.
I'll just continue playing WHM until it gets too bad and fall back on Monk, just like I did in HW. Maybe 5.0 will see an overhaul of the Lily system of we're lucky...

[Miste]

I'll be honest. I don't even bother making threads anymore, because every single time a WHM does, it's instantly shot down with "WHM is still viable", even though that was never the point anyone ever tried to make.

Well I mean can't do much if people aren't willing to keep petitioning for changes :/

Have to keep trying otherwise it won't change unless SE decides on their own to do something.

Maybe there simply isn't enough support for it I don't know, if not enough WHMs believe there is a serious issue then that would definitely make it hard to change anything. There are just so many people playing WHM, as a DiAST who doesn't like Noct sect at all I personally find it hard to find PFs that don't already have a WHM in it :/

[Sebazy]

Let's also remember that a good portion of the reasoning behind AST getting buffed up so much was to dispel it's meme like status after how dismal it was during Gordias Savage progression. Whilst yes, it was capable of killing A3S-A4S, to say it was horrible to do so would be an understatement. Fall behind on HPS and you would have a very bad time trying to recover even on the first turn. Thus the early clear rates were shockingly low for AST even by Gordias standards.

[Remedi]

Can some1 confirm me if it's true or not that they said they want to lower GCD during lightspeed too?

[Ceasaria]

I'll be honest. I don't even bother making threads anymore, because every single time a WHM does, it's instantly shot down with "WHM is still viable"

I remember, every time a WHM do a thread, it's a complaint, an negative opinion.
No, really you should try, even if I main AST I will support it.
I like playing all three healers, and see the useless gauge or second trait lilies II, it's not cool.
Hope SCH will get finally his QoL about pet response in 4.3, too.

The % of DPS loss due to clipping is <1% of an ASTs damage. We're not talking big differences.

Hmm, from my experience as AST, the gain would be around 5% if you count the buff from 'Cast speed' and 'Lightspeed'.

[EaMett]

Can some1 confirm me if it's true or not that they said they want to lower GCD during lightspeed too?

I don't think so. That would defeat the purpose imo. (since most changes seem to be geared towards card clipping and mp management). Then again I can't recall if haste skills lower the gcd by default or not.. Maybe.

[Ceasaria]

Can some1 confirm me if it's true or not that they said they want to lower GCD during lightspeed too?

No, but they should maybe change it, to have Instant cast. I want to do rez instant (the term is *Lightspeed*, right, it should be instant cast).

[Tridus]

I would love to make a thread about how WHMs second Lily trait is still horrendously mediocre

"Horrendous" would be more accurate. "Medicore" means "moderate quality" and implies that it actually does something. In truth, you could remove it from the game right now and most WHM players would never notice anything changed, because the trait hardly ever actually activates and when it does it's barely perceptible (and even if you do notice it, do you care about what it did?).

or how Lilies, our main mechanic of stormblood, is now so useless it really should be taken off your screen as Divine Bension isn't even tied to it anymore, it's just CD reduction, something both AST and SCH has but more efficient.

It's telling that lilies are the only job gauge mechanic in the game where if you removed the ability to get the resource and changed absolutely nothing else, the job wouldn't be impacted at all. That's not true for any other job, even the other ones where the gauges feel tacked on.

"Hide the lily gauge and forget it exists" is common advice to newbie WHMs for a reason. And that's sad.

Or how SCH and AST are creeping up in personal dps every single patch while already completely blowing us out of the water in raid DPS.

There's a disconnect because the left hand of SE says "thou shalt have no raid DPS but you can have more personal DPS" while the right hand of SE says "but having low personal DPS makes all that outdoor levelling content really annoying, so we're going to buff that on everyone else."

They really need to pick one, especially when SCH pDPS is better already in practice, plus they also get rDPS boosters.

But I mean, I'm truly sick of the back and forth debating of it all at this point. Besides, it's not like the NA forum's voice is heard unless we truly disrupt the board like when WHM was about to release a walking disaster in 4.0, the true feedback that's taken into consideration is in the JP forums.
I'll just continue playing WHM until it gets too bad and fall back on Monk, just like I did in HW. Maybe 5.0 will see an overhaul of the Lily system of we're lucky...

Apparently it takes six months to change something like that, so... yeah. 5.0 maybe.

As to the idea of complaining about AST over SCH as a WHM... I'm not in direct completion with SCH as a WHM. SCH/WHM is a lovely, popular healing comp. AST/WHM is... not? I get why, SCH is just all around great now, but to me this is like asking why SAMs aren't complaining about NIN and DRG like they are MNK - NIN has been desired since forever, DRG bringing piercing especially with BRD being so desirable guarantees it a slot and yet most SAMs I've seen on the forums or reddit will complain more about MNK encroaching on their territory with pDPS+ Brotherhood.

Serious question: Why? SCH gets this free pass and is just accepted as always being the best at everything because reasons.

The only reason WHM/AST isn't a popular comp is because SCH is flat out better than Noct AST. If you knock SCH down a bit, you can open up more room for AST and WHM at the same time by making that comp more popular.

I know it isn't a perfect analogy but complaining about SCH just feels... pointless? SE loves SCH, clearly. They messed up a bit in 4.0 but fixed it quick and haven't even unboxed their "Nerf SCH" button.

Yeah, I hear this. SCH and WAR have what amounts to dev protection. If they're not meta, it's a critical bug and will be fixed ASAP. No "sorry it'll take six months" for them. I don't know why that is, but it's a thing. But I tend to think that needs more attention than the other two jobs vying for buffs to try and be the #2 to SCH.