MCH and Monk - Why is underplayed?

[Popotato]

Machinist requires a ridiculous amount of micromanagement for what many consider clunky gameplay at best.

Everything else you say I can agree with, but MCH has very little micromanagement to it. The only part that is dynamic about a MCH's rotation are procs, and even then you force them with ammo. Ever since MCH heat generation was changed to 5 heat, heat management is a complete non-factor. If you are using a 2 ammo rotation, you won't even need to press Cooldown between Wildfires.

Optimal MCH oGCD usage boils down to pressing them as soon as they come off cooldown. There is no decision making whatsoever with their usage. What this also results in is a rotation that doesn't change at all. Every 60s playing the job will be the exact same 60s.

With all that considered, MCH micromanagement basically boils down to A) reacting to procs (which includes optimal WF setup based on current procs) and B) looking at cooldowns. That amount of micromanagement isn't any more than a job like RDM. When there are jobs like BRD and NIN in this game, you really can't say the MCH has high micromanagement.

[IsbellDL]

Monk is my least favorite DPS. The positionals are annoying, & losing GL stacks is frustrating. It might get better at higher levels, but I would't know. Machinist feels OK so far, but the level 70 rotation is not something most people can figure out with a glance at the job guide.

There's no reason to avoid main quest as healer/tank. Sure, they might take a little longer to finish solo content, but it's not severely worse. As a tradeoff, they get much faster queues on the duty finder. That more than makes up for the slower solo content.

[Zerathor]

I'm not entirely sure it's only the playstyle. Mch rotation is fast and ping dependant, but I think it has to do with what they compete with, which is brd. Brd is a lot easier to pick up and do well with, while providing better party buffs. Though mch+brd for the 2 ranged is still a strong set up. Monk has to compete with drg and nin in a 2 melee set up, and that's very hard to do. Although their personal dps is almost high enough to counter the lack of utility, if they're played right.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I think MCH is rather underpowered, which is one contributing factor to it being underused.

Two things I think they should do for MCH is bring back Lead Shot, their DoT that was removed with Stormblood, and give them a version of Warden's Paean. I think that might put them around the levels of BRD.


MNK, having everything be a directional is annoying and 16 secs is not a long enough duration for greaesd lightning.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

MNK, having everything be a directional is annoying and 16 secs is not a long enough duration for greaesd lightning.

Nah 16 seconds is more than enough. What they should do is extend the Opo-opo/raptor/courel stances to 16 seconds as well. Greased lightning being 16 seconds but the forms being 10 leads to some silly situations where you could have kept GL up, but Courel Stance ran out of time.

Other than that, I think the issue with Monk is less about being underpowered, and more about DRG and Ninja being so incredibly strong and solid. They're near irreplaceable and synergizes well with everyone, while a Monk requires a physical heavy party and doesn't benefit casters at all.

[Mhaeric]

I think MCH is rather underpowered, which is one contributing factor to it being underused.

Two things I think they should do for MCH is bring back Lead Shot, their DoT that was removed with Stormblood, and give them a version of Warden's Paean. I think that might put them around the levels of BRD.

I disagree that MCH is objectively underpowered. An equally highly skilled MCH and BRD will be comparable in terms of effectiveness with the MCH outputting slightly more personal dps and the BRD increasing party dps slightly more.

I would say instead that they're situationally underpowered based on player skill. The difference between the two becomes apparent with less player skill since the MCH has a much higher skill gap than BRD. There's a reason a "button mashing bard" is a meme in this game after all. As the player's relative skill drops, each job's output drops at different rate. I.e. a moderately skilled bard will be more effective than a moderately skilled MCH, and at the extreme end a player with questionable skill on BRD will be much more effective than a MCH with equally questionable skill.

So if we're talking about the average of players overall, then yes, MCH can seem underpowered, but the closer you get to the high end of player skill the more they hold their ground. Since most players tend towards average skill, this would defintely contribute to the impression that MCH is underpowered relative to bard, though.

[Seraphor]

I think MCH is rather underpowered, which is one contributing factor to it being underused.

Two things I think they should do for MCH is bring back Lead Shot, their DoT that was removed with Stormblood.

They don't need a DoT when they have turrets.

[CaptainLagbeard]

They don't need a DoT when they have turrets.

I don't think the turret alone matches both Stormbite and Caustic Bite.

[Popotato]

I don't think the turret alone matches both Stormbite and Caustic Bite.

It doesn't, and it's not meant to. Yet, MCH still outdamages BRD at all percentiles. It doesn't need a DoT to match BRD's DoTs, because it's a different job.

[Sylvain]

I'm not gonna comment on the viability (because it's obviously not a reason why people play the job or not since most people are casual. If people only cared about numbers we wouldn't see that many DRK, RDM and BLMlastpatch)


For me at least, I've always enjoyed gadget classes. In GW2 my first class was the Engineer and the MCH is the second DPS i attempted (BLM being my leveling job in HW).
But I just couldn't enjoy the job, in HW the rotation and gameplay felt bland. Now it's better, I really like the Heat system and visual associated with it, but ultimately, FF14 MCh feels like a Gunner and NOT a MACHINist. The turret serves virtually zero purpose beside dps (and a debuff if you will....) It's just there, (a bit like SMN pet but worse), you just put it at the beggining of the fight and voila.

Feeling and visual are a big factor for many players. Not just the numbers and rotation (altough rotation is very important I'd say). So perhaps not so many players play it because :
1 - It's more of a Gunner than anything, basically the selling point of the job (Turrets at the very least) is just fluff and boring.
2 - Number wise it's great but it requires a lot of effort for very little pay off compaired to BRD for instance
3 - As far as I can tell, many people don't seem to enjoy the mechanics, either wildfire or heat, or both.

The job got a descent rework in SB but I think it needs a "deeper" rework. Like on the core fondation.

For Monk my guess is that they somewhat ruined the fast paced feeling associated with the job in SB... I dunno