Did we not just get two $18 outfits 2 weeks ago?

[HyoMinPark]

Account wide effect works too in boosting sales.

I’ve never said that the glamour should not be account-wide. In fact, I’ve advocated it before now, and I’m advocating it now in another thread, as well as alternative ways for alt characters to have the account-wide gear delivered to them when newly made (since SE likes to say that the change from account-wide to per-character with regards to external DLC is because of issues with “too many account wide items” and “it’s hard to send them out when new characters are made”). I was only pointing out the fault in your argument by debating semantics of the word “optional” and picking poor examples to do so with; I wasn’t saying anything about how glamours should stay per character only. So I’m not entirely sure why you’re bringing that up.

Also side note, I actually do Savage. Most of the playerbase doesn't, and it's why I was using an example of walling that with money, because that wouldn't effect most of the playerbase.

As do I. It is still a poor argument to make, and it is something SE would never do. Hence no reason to even make an argument illustrating it in the first place.

[Lunafreya]

I'd like to see your statistical research and studies on this that prove that a large amount of potential FFXIV players are deciding not to play it solely due to cash shop prices on optional items.

Got any data? If not then...your argument is also poorly thought out and lazy.

They still have a point. It's too expensive on top of a sub and now there will also be an app.

[Miste]

They still have a point. It's too expensive on top of a sub and now there will also be an app.

They don't really have a point because they have no statistics to prove their point that people are choosing not to play FFXIV solely due to optional cash shop prices.

Can't really be any point if you can't prove what you're saying is actually happening.

[Lambdafish]

They don't really have a point because they have no statistics to prove their point that people are choosing not to play FFXIV solely due to optional cash shop prices.

I don't think that's the point, I think the point being made is that charging this much in a paid game so frequently is a crappy thing to do to the customer. Optional items or not, whether you are willing to be exploited or not, its a crappy thing to do on SEs part (and no, the "they are a business that is designed to make money" is not a valid excuse to double charge (or even triple charge in the case of the phone app) to the extent that SE has been).

[Miste]

I don't think that's the point, I think the point being made is that charging this much in a paid game so frequently is a crappy thing to do to the customer. Optional items or not, whether you are willing to be exploited or not, its a crappy thing to do on SEs part (and no, the "they are a business that is designed to make money" is not a valid excuse to double charge (or even triple charge in the case of the phone app) to the extent that SE has been).

You might want to look back in the reply history of this to get the proper context because this argument you are using isn't what the person said whom I initially replied to. So it doesn't have anything to do with what I replied to them.

They claimed people are choosing not to play FFXIV for the sole reason of seeing the cash shop prices. Sorry, but there is nothing to prove their claim of this occurring.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't think that's the point, I think the point being made is that charging this much in a paid game so frequently is a crappy thing to do to the customer. Optional items or not, whether you are willing to be exploited or not, its a crappy thing to do on SEs part (and no, the "they are a business that is designed to make money" is not a valid excuse to double charge (or even triple charge in the case of the phone app) to the extent that SE has been).

Their post made it sound like that was the point, though, because while they addressed the lack of account-wide items in the cash shop, that was one line in the post. The rest said:

People who have yet to play the game look at having to buy the game + having to pay a sub then see it has a cash shop with extremely high price tags and opt to just not play the game. Thus making the amount of new players fewer and with the redundancy of patches having people either quit all together or take long breaks means fewer and fewer people playing.

If SE had reasonable prices with account wide merchandise or benefits like other games have who give cash shop credit for each dollar you spend on a sub, that would keep people from opting out because the price tag looks too large for, lets face it, a sub par mmo surviving mostly on name and fan service.

There’s no statistical proof or evidence that people look at FFXIV’s price tag, and then look at the cash shop, and say “too much”. There’s more proof in the other statement they said, in that player retention is low because of the stale formula the developers have for content releases.

[Hestzhyen]

You might want to look back in the reply history of this to get the proper context because this argument you are using isn't what the person said whom I initially replied to. So it doesn't have anything to do with what I replied to them.

They claimed people are choosing not to play FFXIV for the sole reason of seeing the cash shop prices. Sorry, but there is nothing to prove their claim of this occurring.

I think we'll have an idea on what's happening when SE talks about the new merch and app more in the next live letter. If they back track, deflect, try to spin the app to make it more appealing, or make concessions, we can probably infer that a lot of the unhappiness about the app manifested in terminated or paused subscriptions. I hope so, since I'm one of the people who stopped the auto-renew and won't be paying past 4.3 if I don't hear some good news about changes to how SE is getting money. I am willing to pay an increased sub fee if that's what it comes to, but don't try to add extra subscriptions and optional purchases on top of what I already pay to play.

The stuff on the cash shop seems to be more expensive lately. I don't buy stuff from it but OP is not the first to note that prices seem to have trended upwards. Maybe if you're going to start demanding proof you can back up your own assertions with data instead of flatly rejecting the guy you're talking to for lack of his own?

[Miste]

Maybe if you're going to start demanding proof you can back up your own assertions with data instead of flatly rejecting the guy you're talking to for lack of his own?

Person A (MicahZerrshia) makes claim that potential FFXIV players are deciding not to play solely due to cash shop prices.

Person B (me) says "Do you have any statistical proof of that? If not it isn't a good argument."

Can you show me where I need proof or data about anything I said?

Burden of proof lies on the person who made the claim.

[Hestzhyen]

Person A (MicahZerrshia) makes claim that potential FFXIV players are deciding not to play solely due to cash shop prices.

Person B (me) says "Do you have any statistical proof of that? If not it isn't a good argument."

Can you show me where I need proof or data about anything I said?

Burden of proof lies on the person who made the claim.

Sorry I think I worded that poorly. Not to argue semantics or anything, but saying "you have no proof so no bueno" in a situation like this isn't exactly going to generate great discussion. SE doesn't release metrics on sub counts and inferences based on promotions/PR screw ups (no company does so it's not surprising - data like that is a very closely guarded secret). The best we get is one Japanese guy's unofficial census of active players a few times a year. What data are they supposed to have that will please you? There's also no recent data saying that XIV is doing peachy-keen and the high merch prices/app news hasn't affected them at all. The only things we can do are guess based on subjective opinions and what the devs are doing. If SE starts inching one way or the other - lower prices, more sales, more high prices, more subscription options, whatever- we can make critical guesses. But demanding proof when there's none to be had won't get us anywhere.

They guy you were replying to was being hyperbolic, sure. The app and cash shop prices won't single-handedly kill the game. But SE could also well be increasing those prices and adding these paid features to shore up losses from subs that were dropped and aren't forecasted to come back. We don't know. So flatly rejecting or assuming one way or the other seems a bit out of hand.

[HyoMinPark]

The stuff on the cash shop seems to be more expensive lately. I don't buy stuff from it but OP is not the first to note that prices seem to have trended upwards. Maybe if you're going to start demanding proof you can back up your own assertions with data instead of flatly rejecting the guy you're talking to for lack of his own?

Define “lately”.

The first Chinese exclusive was the Far Eastern Lady’s and Lord’s Attire, released in Patch 3.4 (Sept 2016). Price was $18 USD. All subsequent Chinese/Korean exclusives have remained $18 USD—the Nezha outfits and the Angelic/Demonic sets are all Chinese exclusives.

The only $18 USD outfit that is not a regional exclusive is the Emerald and Topaz Carbuncle sets: I imagine that they are more than the other non-regional outfits (NPC/Scion outfits, Lightning’s/Snow’s outfit) because they are: 1. Dyeable (NPC outfits are not dyeable), and 2. Not past event items (FFXIII outfits are past event). Granted, they could be $15 USD, too, but $18 USD for a non-regional outfit is a first-time thing; we will have to see if the next non-NPC outfit is also $18 USD, or if they just go back to $15 USD.

The first mount to be made account-wide was Sleipnir, which was originally single character only, and it was released around Patch 2.4 (Fall 2014). All account-wide mounts have subsequently remained $24 USD, with the exception of the Fat Moogle Mount ($30 USD), but it is also a two-seater mount.

These prices aren’t really a new thing.