Introduce a new tank and make dark knight DPS again

[M1551NGN0]

Seriously... just revert it back to the glory days of being a high dps job with blood attacks/dark magic and introduce a new tank altogether. Been disappointed with it since it was changed to a tank tbh. Please consider this

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/index.shtml

[Saeno]

wait, ppl thought pld 3.0 was trash? it was the easiest tank to play in raids

Yes, and PLD actually was hot garbage. It being easy to play is not a good or bad thing.

sure, dungeon content for pld was boring because your only aoe is an ogcd but being the tank class that can switch between offensive and defensive stance at any point of the fight was so good it made me hate grit
also the STR down on halone rotation

PLD in dungeons wasn't just boring, it's extraordinarily bad because of how little damage it did. Switching your tank and DPS stance on and off would be good if it didn't cost a GCD to do either. Activating Grit is the same as activating Shield oath, but DRK doesn't need to lose an additional GCD to go into DPS stance because for a DRK, being out of Grit is your DPS "stance". If anything, Grit should have made you dislike Shield oath/Sword oath more.

[Luminarium]

PLD in dungeons wasn't just boring, it's extraordinarily bad because of how little damage it did. Switching your tank and DPS stance on and off would be good if it didn't cost a GCD to do either. Activating Grit is the same as activating Shield oath, but DRK doesn't need to lose an additional GCD to go into DPS stance because for a DRK, being out of Grit is your DPS "stance". If anything, Grit should have made you dislike Shield oath/Sword oath more.

having a 20% mitigation on the gcd with just the penalty of losing a gcd (they actually fixed it because changing stances drops whatever combo you're currently in). meanwhile as i was a drk i was always hesitant to turn on grit for having the same % of mitigation but with much more mana cost that can cost me a +1 da or the darkness buff entirely

but enough about me de-railing. i just wanted to point out that the paladin of 3.0 wasnt as bad as the dark knight of 4.0.

[Saeno]

having a 20% mitigation on the gcd with just the penalty of losing a gcd (they actually fixed it because changing stances drops whatever combo you're currently in). meanwhile as i was a drk i was always hesitant to turn on grit for having the same % of mitigation but with much more mana cost that can cost me a +1 da or the darkness buff entirely

I don't see why you would care about losing a Dark Arts when you want that 20% mitigation. As for losing Darkside, you generally should be hanging around 40-60% of your MP to avoid being in the position of not having any MP when you need it.

but enough about me de-railing. i just wanted to point out that the paladin of 3.0 wasnt as bad as the dark knight of 4.0.

You're free to have your own opinion on things but man do I disagree with this one. PLD in 3.0 was ABYSMAL to put it nicely. DRK now can at least kill content without hampering the team too hard so long as slashing debuff is available to the PLD and DRK. PLD on the other hand was very bad to take into HW content since it meant you will also need to take a MNK for the INT down debuff, and that means no DRG/NIN comp.

[Luminarium]

what was the point of having a drg/nin comp if most of the monks on my server were on steroids
i honestly thought mnk was legit broken back then
i understand having the need for a drg because of the disembowel but for nin's TA, mch can easily make up for the loss
there were also fights where int downs werent that necessary. the entire midas savage raid favored str down over int down if we're talking mitigations. the only fight that i can think of that strictly required a drk was a12s

i look at the pld as if it's the easier go-to class not just for the player, but the entire party. easier to heal and has good raid utility. i often played with healers that were too scared to play with dark knights because they were "harder to sustain".
i didn't get into dark knight that much until the last set of savage floors just because of a12s

by the way, my server still favored war being the ST. idk about other worlds
so it's either drk or pld mt

drk as st is undoubtedly superior to pld in terms of dps. but if that was the case, paladins were free to clemency and divine veil whenever needed. they also can cast protect if the healers are tight on mp
oh and stoneskin

[Saeno]

what was the point of having a drg/nin comp if most of the monks on my server were on steroids
i honestly thought mnk was legit broken back then

DRG/NIN comp provides higher raid DPS than a MNK. MNK's personal damage does not even come close to the amount of damage either of the other melee brougth with their utility and own personal output.

i understand having the need for a drg because of the disembowel but for nin's TA, mch can easily make up for the loss
there were also fights where int downs werent that necessary. the entire midas savage raid favored str down over int down if we're talking mitigations. the only fight that i can think of that strictly required a drk was a12s

You would still bring a MCH in the DRG/NIN comp so you could use both TA and Hyperdrive. As for the INT down, A1s, A3s, A4s, A6s, A7s, A8s, A10s, A11s and A12s all had high magic damage, some more than others but for the most part you definately wanted INT down. The only fight where PLD was ever really good was A9s since it had a lot of physical damage and the auto attacks HURT, but as it turned out, Plunge helped the DRK dodge a scrapline in the fight, giving it extreme value over PLD which could only replicate that with Hallowed Ground.

i look at the pld as if it's the easier go-to class not just for the player, but the entire party. easier to heal and has good raid utility. i often played with healers that were too scared to play with dark knights because they were "harder to sustain".
i didn't get into dark knight that much until the last set of savage floors just because of a12s

PLD was not any easier to heal than WAR or DRK, you'd prboably need to heal more with a PLD since the party is now taking higher raid wide damage without INT down. As for utility, Divine Veil and Halone do not even scratch the effectiveness of Storms Path or Delirium/Reprisal. PLD very much lacked good raid utility. If a healer is afraid to heal a DRK, it should only be because of Living Dead. DRK on its own does not need any more healing than any other tank.

by the way, my server still favored war being the ST. idk about other worlds
so it's either drk or pld mt

Anecdotes don't really help anyone's case. Regardless if you had a DRK or PLD, a WAR should always pull and the DRK or PLD should then provoke the boss to begin getting value from Reprisal/Blood price/Low blow and Shield Swipes.

drk as st is undoubtedly superior to pld in terms of dps. but if that was the case, paladins were free to clemency and divine veil whenever needed. they also can cast protect if the healers are tight on mp
oh and stoneskin

DRK was never better than PLD at OT. DRK was actually pretty damn bad at OTing since they could not Reprisal effectively anymore and they also lost DPS from Low blows and Blood price. As for the healing issues, those things should never happen since there are TWO healers, not just one. If the healers are in such a bad spot that they need help from a PLD, something went very wrong. Even if a PLD chose to help the healers, it meant they lost DPS from casting those spells which is still very bad.

[Megguido]

but enough about me de-railing. i just wanted to point out that the paladin of 3.0 wasnt as bad as the dark knight of 4.0.

From my point of view, it's the complete opposite. DRK is a tiny bit behind PLD and WAR, but far from what PLD was in 3.X. Lots of people make it sound like DRK is trash-tier since 4.0.

Even in high-end content, I mitigate as much playing DRK and PLD, and deal comparable damage with both jobs. DRK isn't any squishier than PLD, but it lacks some tools that make PLD awesome (mostly, Cover and Intervention).

[Dualgunner]

From my point of view, it's the complete opposite. DRK is a tiny bit behind PLD and WAR, but far from what PLD was in 3.X. Lots of people make it sound like DRK is trash-tier since 4.0.

Even in high-end content, I mitigate as much playing DRK and PLD, and deal comparable damage with both jobs. DRK isn't any squishier than PLD, but it lacks some tools that make PLD awesome (mostly, Cover and Intervention).

See, it's funny how yes technically you are mitigating the same amount. But lacking cover and intervention, as well as Hallowed's ability to just null some dots' application altogether leave it in a much better spot than DRK. I recently ran a God Kefka where our pug WAR had to re-learn a few mechanics for cheese just because you can get away with so much more with a PLD cotank than a DRK cotank, and his cotank in his static is a DRK.

It's like, DRK and PLD have basically the same number of toys, but PLD just has so many more genuinely useful toys.

[Luminarium]

#MakeDRKGreatAgain

[Luminarium]

. As for the INT down, A1s, A3s, A4s, A6s, A7s, A8s, A10s, A11s and A12s all had high magic damage, some more than others but for the most part you definately wanted INT down.

if it's raid-wide aoe damage the scholar's virus and succor were more than enough to mitigate the high magic damage. most tank busters were blockable physically.

WAR should always pull and the DRK or PLD should then provoke the boss to begin getting value from Reprisal/Blood price/Low blow and Shield Swipes.

warriors on my server would rather spend their first 5 stacks on a fellcleave rather than unchained. shirk wasnt there too


i gotta say i did forget about blood price being available without grit. i also miss reprisal having damage

1000 character limiiiit