Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Lilseph]

It was at one of the NA FanFests just before the cash shop went live. I don't remember which one exactly but I remember him sitting on the stage and saying, in English, "no pay to win."

That being said, Yoshi P says a lot of things.

I think Yoshi-p doesn't consider it P2W because the MB wars is not something it's "part of the game", but a player made competition. That being said, considering these elements P2W is purely subjective, while objectively, the game resolves around PvE/MSQ and PvP but with less importance than the former. Where these elements don't affect it. You don't need a lot of gil to get crafted gear, meld materia or buy consumables.

But on the other hand, I have my concerns, regarding the APP. I don't think the extra space is an issue per se, but being able to control the market by spamming the buy buttom with these Kupo Coins. I'm not 100% sure if there was going to be a limit for these as well, or you can go ham on your credit card and fill your pocket with them. I don't want the prices to skyrocket, because THEN the gil is gonna be an issue. This is a "what if" situation, a concern. I do hope it doesn't happen.

In the end, I'm not defending the APP either. I think it should be an attractive feature, therefore, it should be free. No premium bs. No currency. They should have enough with sub fees+retainer fees on top of their overpriced Mogstation.

On WoW's end, they had a similar APP going on, but it was discontinued because only few players were using it. Then it stopped receiving updates because it wasn't worth it and then they removed it. Afaik.

and why Rinuko insists in spaming sarcastic posts to mock me with the rude comment on the bottom with each time they post.

I mean, you do the exact same thing to other people.

[Remyogic]

*snip

I thought you posted yesterday at around 2pm that it was your last post? *sad face*

Anyways, in order to call anything P2W you have to have an agreed upon definition of winning. You failed to state clearly in your OP that having more gil than anyone else was your goal of winning. In which case, alot of things with this app would qualify as P2W. HOWEVER, you are in the VAST MINORITY in this view as very few people view gil accumulation as a factor of "winning". Thus, if you choose to quit because you feel it is P2W, fine. See ya. However, your views and opinions in no way make it fact, and stating them as such and continuously posting retorts based on the "indisputable fact that retainers are P2W" is asinine stupidity to the extreme. There is a group of people who still believe the earth is flat.............

If you had posted from the beginning that you are quitting because your goal to win this game is to have more gil than you know what to do with and thus you are quitting because the app gives others an advantage against your goals and you don't want to CHOOSE to take advantage of the same thing they are; we could of all just posted "your an idiot, goodbye" instead of all this convoluted, made up, completely subjective garbage in this thread.

I don't care about your goals, the only goals that matter to me are mine.

[Tridus]

Was said when they introduced the cash shop and no, premium plan isnt p2w.

Depends on how you define P2W. It used to be that anything that let you pay real money to circumvent a gameplay limitation was considered P2W. But because it's SE, people are now trying to change it to mean something else.

[Talraen]

Depends on how you define P2W. It used to be that anything that let you pay real money to circumvent a gameplay limitation was considered P2W. But because it's SE, people are now trying to change it to mean something else.

That would literally define all DLC as P2W. Buying unique glamour? It's a 'gameplay limitation' that that glamour isn't accessible otherwise, P2W. Same for mounts or any other aesthetics. Which if you want to define it that way, fine, but I'm not going to because it's not a helpful delimiter.

[Remyogic]

Depends on how you define P2W. It used to be that anything that let you pay real money to circumvent a gameplay limitation was considered P2W. But because it's SE, people are now trying to change it to mean something else.

Your stated definition is true of games that have a hard-wall of progression that can only be circumvented by paying real money. Since there is no hard-wall to progression in FFXIV, the definition of P2W is EXTREMELY subjective and nearly impossible to apply to this game. It has nothing to do with "because it's SE".

[Tridus]

Your stated definition is true of games that have a hard-wall of progression that can only be circumvented by paying real money. Since there is no hard-wall to progression in FFXIV, the definition of P2W is EXTREMELY subjective and nearly impossible to apply to this game. It has nothing to do with "because it's SE".

Paying money for bag slots is pretty common in other games, and now SE gives you two different ways to do it. But that doesn't count because reasons. The only question at this point on this game is just how far they'll go with it, the direction is pretty clear.

[Remyogic]

Paying money for bag slots is pretty common in other games, and now SE gives you two different ways to do it. But that doesn't count because reasons. The only question at this point on this game is just how far they'll go with it, the direction is pretty clear.

Nobody is arguing that this game has features which allow players to choose to pay for in-game conveniences. What is being disputed is that labeling those conveniences as P2W is very sketchy at best and does not fit in with your stated definition of P2W, which was my contention.

[Okamimaru]

At this point nobody is convincing anybody to change their positions so these threads serve no purpose other than as noise makers... the biggest thread gets noticed not the topic with the most threads...

[Mahrze]

At this point nobody is convincing anybody to change their positions so these threads serve no purpose other than as noise makers... the biggest thread gets noticed not the topic with the most threads...

Which is another thing that is just silly and I am sure the actual reasoning is "something something limitations of something something". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Vstarstruck]

I think Yoshi-p doesn't consider it P2W because the MB wars is not something it's "part of the game", but a player made competition. That being said, considering these elements P2W is purely subjective, while objectively, the game resolves around PvE/MSQ and PvP but with less importance than the former. Where these elements don't affect it. You don't need a lot of gil to get crafted gear, meld materia or buy consumables.

But on the other hand, I have my concerns, regarding the APP. I don't think the extra space is an issue per se, but being able to control the market by spamming the buy buttom with these Kupo Coins. I'm not 100% sure if there was going to be a limit for these as well, or you can go ham on your credit card and fill your pocket with them. I don't want the prices to skyrocket, because THEN the gil is gonna be an issue. This is a "what if" situation, a concern. I do hope it doesn't happen.

In the end, I'm not defending the APP either. I think it should be an attractive feature, therefore, it should be free. No premium bs. No currency. They should have enough with sub fees+retainer fees on top of their overpriced Mogstation.

On WoW's end, they had a similar APP going on, but it was discontinued because only few players were using it. Then it stopped receiving updates because it wasn't worth it and then they removed it. Afaik.



I mean, you do the exact same thing to other people.

No I do not, unless you are jumping in mid convo after I was insulted, maybe that is where the mistake lies.

Going by the slides, they showed, what is going to happen, should that rich few chose to abuse this, is spam undercut till a point, buy the item, and relist it back at a hike price. So I guess it depends if you get lucky in buying something before the buyout.

It was at one of the NA FanFests just before the cash shop went live. I don't remember which one exactly but I remember him sitting on the stage and saying, in English, "no pay to win."

That being said, Yoshi P says a lot of things.

Oh trust me I know, esp when it comes with housing, like implying personal will have a different (zone? ) something outside wards because "be more of them and cheaper" and yet all they did was grid lock housing from making them all too cheap and putting personals in the wards.

Then his quote about not attaching sub fee to keep your house (shocked that is still a thing even after all the bad press to get them to make 18 wards or w/e)

I thought you posted yesterday at around 2pm that it was your last post? *sad face*

Anyways, in order to call anything P2W you have to have an agreed upon definition of winning. You failed to state clearly in your OP that having more gil than anyone else was your goal of winning. In which case, alot of things with this app would qualify as P2W. HOWEVER, you are in the VAST MINORITY in this view as very few people view gil accumulation as a factor of "winning". Thus, if you choose to quit because you feel it is P2W, fine. See ya. However, your views and opinions in no way make it fact, and stating them as such and continuously posting retorts based on the "indisputable fact that retainers are P2W" is asinine stupidity to the extreme. There is a group of people who still believe the earth is flat.............

If you had posted from the beginning that you are quitting because your goal to win this game is to have more gil than you know what to do with and thus you are quitting because the app gives others an advantage against your goals and you don't want to CHOOSE to take advantage of the same thing they are; we could of all just posted "your an idiot, goodbye" instead of all this convoluted, made up, completely subjective garbage in this thread.

I don't care about your goals, the only goals that matter to me are mine.

It does not matter what your goals are or care about mine. What matters is trying to make the game as most enjoyable as possible and that means not having P2W in it. Just because it does not effect you directly does not change it is P2W or a problem.

Nobody is arguing that this game has features which allow players to choose to pay for in-game conveniences. What is being disputed is that labeling those conveniences as P2W is very sketchy at best and does not fit in with your stated definition of P2W, which was my contention.

The only thing sketchy here is your definition in why you are trying to use a sketchy definition to defend SE in claiming there is no P2W with this app when it is a FACT it is P2W!

That would literally define all DLC as P2W. Buying unique glamour? It's a 'gameplay limitation' that that glamour isn't accessible otherwise, P2W. Same for mounts or any other aesthetics. Which if you want to define it that way, fine, but I'm not going to because it's not a helpful delimiter.

You are not understanding how limitation is applied here. The limitation comes from that 2 people playing different amounts of money, has different selling power within the markets, so much so with this app making the markets so much P2W, one person can control it, if they chose to. The only question is there someone willing go this far in this game? We know for a fact they do exist when you look at mobile games, we just do not know if that one person does exist here. I am sure there be someone that does though, chances are pretty good there be at least one person on one server using this app for full market dominance. (In fact I know a person that has such power, just choosing not to on pure moral grounds.)