Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Jandor]

Was said when they introduced the cash shop and no, premium plan isnt p2w.

Kinda is a bit though.

[Rinuko]

Kinda is a bit though.

Is MSQ skip, Job level and extra retainers p2w too then? lol

[RiyahArp]

Is MSQ skip, Job level and extra retainers p2w too then? lol

the extra retainers are p2win if your goal is crafting barony and gil making yes. That's never in doubt. We don't complain about it because gil is not necessary in this game, and crafting barony doesn't lock people out that much. You actually can't complete one of the challenge logs without at least one extra retainer; the 18 hour time frame of the retainer mission would require you to plan incredibly exactly to get it.

The p2win for the other things, no. I think you can be concerned at just how much optional content is being locked behind paying rl money for; a tremendous amount of glamour is such, and there's zero way to earn many mounts in game. You also can't miss a season event in this game ever, since they won't repeat many of them; the summer bikinis are a very galling example, since there are 6 of them in different colors.

[Vstarstruck]

Was said when they introduced the cash shop and no, premium plan isnt p2w.

I'd like a link to an exact quote..

the extra retainers are p2win if your goal is crafting barony and gil making yes. That's never in doubt. We don't complain about it because gil is not necessary in this game, and crafting barony doesn't lock people out that much. You actually can't complete one of the challenge logs without at least one extra retainer; the 18 hour time frame of the retainer mission would require you to plan incredibly exactly to get it.

The p2win for the other things, no. I think you can be concerned at just how much optional content is being locked behind paying rl money for; a tremendous amount of glamour is such, and there's zero way to earn many mounts in game. You also can't miss a season event in this game ever, since they won't repeat many of them; the summer bikinis are a very galling example, since there are 6 of them in different colors.

this, I do not know why this is hard to understand, and why Rinuko insists in spaming sarcastic posts to mock me with the rude comment on the bottom with each time they post.

Yeah pretty much, that last one especially.

Virtually every online game has some p2w in it these days, just different folks have different tolerances for it.

yeah, when retainers where new, I thought it was just a temp fix, to collect money to truly address the problem or whatever. Feel so native, we most likely should been backlashing it then, but then again someone did try(though more at the mog station in general)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...icial-response.

Yeah I def think having more of an official response is valid.

[Callinon]

I'd like a link to an exact quote..

It was at one of the NA FanFests just before the cash shop went live. I don't remember which one exactly but I remember him sitting on the stage and saying, in English, "no pay to win."

That being said, Yoshi P says a lot of things.

[Lilseph]

It was at one of the NA FanFests just before the cash shop went live. I don't remember which one exactly but I remember him sitting on the stage and saying, in English, "no pay to win."

That being said, Yoshi P says a lot of things.

I think Yoshi-p doesn't consider it P2W because the MB wars is not something it's "part of the game", but a player made competition. That being said, considering these elements P2W is purely subjective, while objectively, the game resolves around PvE/MSQ and PvP but with less importance than the former. Where these elements don't affect it. You don't need a lot of gil to get crafted gear, meld materia or buy consumables.

But on the other hand, I have my concerns, regarding the APP. I don't think the extra space is an issue per se, but being able to control the market by spamming the buy buttom with these Kupo Coins. I'm not 100% sure if there was going to be a limit for these as well, or you can go ham on your credit card and fill your pocket with them. I don't want the prices to skyrocket, because THEN the gil is gonna be an issue. This is a "what if" situation, a concern. I do hope it doesn't happen.

In the end, I'm not defending the APP either. I think it should be an attractive feature, therefore, it should be free. No premium bs. No currency. They should have enough with sub fees+retainer fees on top of their overpriced Mogstation.

On WoW's end, they had a similar APP going on, but it was discontinued because only few players were using it. Then it stopped receiving updates because it wasn't worth it and then they removed it. Afaik.

and why Rinuko insists in spaming sarcastic posts to mock me with the rude comment on the bottom with each time they post.

I mean, you do the exact same thing to other people.

[Vstarstruck]

I think Yoshi-p doesn't consider it P2W because the MB wars is not something it's "part of the game", but a player made competition. That being said, considering these elements P2W is purely subjective, while objectively, the game resolves around PvE/MSQ and PvP but with less importance than the former. Where these elements don't affect it. You don't need a lot of gil to get crafted gear, meld materia or buy consumables.

But on the other hand, I have my concerns, regarding the APP. I don't think the extra space is an issue per se, but being able to control the market by spamming the buy buttom with these Kupo Coins. I'm not 100% sure if there was going to be a limit for these as well, or you can go ham on your credit card and fill your pocket with them. I don't want the prices to skyrocket, because THEN the gil is gonna be an issue. This is a "what if" situation, a concern. I do hope it doesn't happen.

In the end, I'm not defending the APP either. I think it should be an attractive feature, therefore, it should be free. No premium bs. No currency. They should have enough with sub fees+retainer fees on top of their overpriced Mogstation.

On WoW's end, they had a similar APP going on, but it was discontinued because only few players were using it. Then it stopped receiving updates because it wasn't worth it and then they removed it. Afaik.



I mean, you do the exact same thing to other people.

No I do not, unless you are jumping in mid convo after I was insulted, maybe that is where the mistake lies.

Going by the slides, they showed, what is going to happen, should that rich few chose to abuse this, is spam undercut till a point, buy the item, and relist it back at a hike price. So I guess it depends if you get lucky in buying something before the buyout.

It was at one of the NA FanFests just before the cash shop went live. I don't remember which one exactly but I remember him sitting on the stage and saying, in English, "no pay to win."

That being said, Yoshi P says a lot of things.

Oh trust me I know, esp when it comes with housing, like implying personal will have a different (zone? ) something outside wards because "be more of them and cheaper" and yet all they did was grid lock housing from making them all too cheap and putting personals in the wards.

Then his quote about not attaching sub fee to keep your house (shocked that is still a thing even after all the bad press to get them to make 18 wards or w/e)

I thought you posted yesterday at around 2pm that it was your last post? *sad face*

Anyways, in order to call anything P2W you have to have an agreed upon definition of winning. You failed to state clearly in your OP that having more gil than anyone else was your goal of winning. In which case, alot of things with this app would qualify as P2W. HOWEVER, you are in the VAST MINORITY in this view as very few people view gil accumulation as a factor of "winning". Thus, if you choose to quit because you feel it is P2W, fine. See ya. However, your views and opinions in no way make it fact, and stating them as such and continuously posting retorts based on the "indisputable fact that retainers are P2W" is asinine stupidity to the extreme. There is a group of people who still believe the earth is flat.............

If you had posted from the beginning that you are quitting because your goal to win this game is to have more gil than you know what to do with and thus you are quitting because the app gives others an advantage against your goals and you don't want to CHOOSE to take advantage of the same thing they are; we could of all just posted "your an idiot, goodbye" instead of all this convoluted, made up, completely subjective garbage in this thread.

I don't care about your goals, the only goals that matter to me are mine.

It does not matter what your goals are or care about mine. What matters is trying to make the game as most enjoyable as possible and that means not having P2W in it. Just because it does not effect you directly does not change it is P2W or a problem.

Nobody is arguing that this game has features which allow players to choose to pay for in-game conveniences. What is being disputed is that labeling those conveniences as P2W is very sketchy at best and does not fit in with your stated definition of P2W, which was my contention.

The only thing sketchy here is your definition in why you are trying to use a sketchy definition to defend SE in claiming there is no P2W with this app when it is a FACT it is P2W!

That would literally define all DLC as P2W. Buying unique glamour? It's a 'gameplay limitation' that that glamour isn't accessible otherwise, P2W. Same for mounts or any other aesthetics. Which if you want to define it that way, fine, but I'm not going to because it's not a helpful delimiter.

You are not understanding how limitation is applied here. The limitation comes from that 2 people playing different amounts of money, has different selling power within the markets, so much so with this app making the markets so much P2W, one person can control it, if they chose to. The only question is there someone willing go this far in this game? We know for a fact they do exist when you look at mobile games, we just do not know if that one person does exist here. I am sure there be someone that does though, chances are pretty good there be at least one person on one server using this app for full market dominance. (In fact I know a person that has such power, just choosing not to on pure moral grounds.)

[Remyogic]

The only thing sketchy here is your definition in why you are trying to use a sketchy definition to defend SE in claiming there is no P2W with this app when it is a FACT it is P2W!

Ok, I'll roll with you on this.

FACT: a thing that is indisputably the case

Tell me FACTUALLY, EXACTLY what I WIN by paying for this app. No hyperboles, no could-be's, no theories, no could-be's, no opinions (since we're dealing in FACTS). Tell me, in detail, how I WIN FFXIV by paying for this app. Then I'll boycott the app with you.

[Remyogic]

*snip

I thought you posted yesterday at around 2pm that it was your last post? *sad face*

Anyways, in order to call anything P2W you have to have an agreed upon definition of winning. You failed to state clearly in your OP that having more gil than anyone else was your goal of winning. In which case, alot of things with this app would qualify as P2W. HOWEVER, you are in the VAST MINORITY in this view as very few people view gil accumulation as a factor of "winning". Thus, if you choose to quit because you feel it is P2W, fine. See ya. However, your views and opinions in no way make it fact, and stating them as such and continuously posting retorts based on the "indisputable fact that retainers are P2W" is asinine stupidity to the extreme. There is a group of people who still believe the earth is flat.............

If you had posted from the beginning that you are quitting because your goal to win this game is to have more gil than you know what to do with and thus you are quitting because the app gives others an advantage against your goals and you don't want to CHOOSE to take advantage of the same thing they are; we could of all just posted "your an idiot, goodbye" instead of all this convoluted, made up, completely subjective garbage in this thread.

I don't care about your goals, the only goals that matter to me are mine.

[Jandor]

Is MSQ skip, Job level and extra retainers p2w too then? lol

Yeah pretty much, that last one especially.

Virtually every online game has some p2w in it these days, just different folks have different tolerances for it.