Thoughts on what the game needs to do

[Ghishlain]

No one came here in any real numbers to raid in this game because of it, no one is really recruiting for it (i see barely 2-3 pfs even mentioning it per day per data center) and all the world firsters either went back into hibernation, or are scum who are trying to sell the runs using means that violate tos (unless you think people can seven man that content as opposed to log in as a players account, and are not doing it for real life cash) so yeah, protest all you like, i say its a failure and it is.

I agree on some of your points, and disagree on others - but I find your argument that Ultimate was a failure is heavily mired in a biased vitriol based on the bolded comment above and undermines your position immensely. You sound like one of those bitter people who either don't have the skill or time to get into raiding and then blaming the raiders for just existing because of either your inability to perform or inability to participate.

For the record - I didn't find Ultimate to be a failure. It was designed for a very niche subset of raiders when raiders are already a smaller subset of the player base as a whole. Just because the content isn't being run 24/7 doesn't mean it's a failure. It was aimed at it's intended audience and it hit the intended audience with a bullseye. I'm not even a hardcore top 1% raider but I certainly enjoyed watching the massive amount of precision, skill, and raw endurance necessary to execute the content perfectly. If I enjoyed it by watching it from the outside, then there are others like me who enjoyed it too. We might be a small subset but we do exist and the content makes us happy to watch.

And I guess just to quote you.

"Protest all you like, I say its a success and it is."

[Popotato]

Twitch is useless unless the game can be played free or its a game people dont want to pay for but do want to watch. Virtually all of the top 20 games are F2P, and the topmost game is God of War for Ps4, which is a single player story game that already got great reviews; so people are essentially watching others do it. If you look at the games people play seriously or buy that aren't free, it's very grim; only 30ish total have more than 5k watchers, and many hover at 500-600, including Nintendo greats like Botw and Splatoon 2. EVE online is barely 500 watchers. Cuphead has something like 150.

Twitch really relies on a certain genre of game, and a hot game, to get anything more than token watchers. FFXIV is never going to be more of a blip on its radar, and trying to chase the cheapskate market never works

The way you personally define success of something is by how long is had player retention, which in this case is fundamentally flawed. As you said, Breath of the Wild, a critically acclaimed video game, is barely scraping 500 views. Well, since people aren’t interested in it anymore, is that game a failure?

God of War is a fresh release game that is pulling viewership numbers comparable to BotW on release. This is just an example of how viewership naturally works. Interest is fleeting, and very rarely will you be able to keep an audience engaged for a long time. That’s why I think it’s a flawed way of looking at success. Really, you should look at the quality of the experience that was delivered when it was still fresh and exciting. The way BotW was back then and how God of War is right now are signs that the games are delivering on a fantastic experience. People who played and watched the games had a fantastic experience, and they are now happy to put it behind them. In no way are they failures.

Now, this ties into Ultimate as Ultimate was designed to be an experience much like those games above. Ultimate is designed with a different mindset than Svaage raids. It’s not meant to be something done habitually to gear you up like savage is, it’s designed as a challenge that people work their way towards clearing. And once they’ve cleared, they are content with the experience they had, and put it behind them. The release of ultimate breathed new excitement into FFXIV and FFXIV viewership. More importantly, it created excitement for those people that only log in on reset night, gave them a reason to play for more than just one night. And plus, people still are tackling UCoB today. That’s a measure of how it’s meant to be a one time challenge, not a routine grind.

Therefore, assessing Ultimate to be a failure based simply on how it isn’t retaining players right now is just the wrong way to look at it. The first two weeks after Ultimate was released created the highlight of many player’s FFXIV careers. It was a huge success at the time, and its succcess should be measured with regards to its release.

[RiyahArp]

based on the bolded comment

People who sell runs for ultimate are scum, for two reasons.

1. They are probably selling it for real world money. There isn't anything worthwhile for gil in this game beyond a certain point. Even if they wanted it, given that they are all advertising cross server makes it impossible, since converting that quantity of gil would take more items than AHs have for sale or people have inventory for and require the player to transfer his main over if just to do the trade.
2. They are probably logging in to the players account to do it, unless somehow people can reliably run ultimate with a 7 man and one on the floor.

Both are things RMT do, and I refuse to walk that back.

As for world firsters raid logging, that's what they do. That is not controversial in the slightest.

Sigh, as for failure it is, because ultimate is not going to save this game. Ultimate in the next patch does nothing if Eureka is the same old "90% of people stay afk in the fate train" stuff we got in this patch. It wont fix how half the roulettes are now pointless because eureka is more efficient to cap tomes and it took away motivation to get poetics and creation for capped players like past relics did.

It doesn't solve the fact we have nothing new to do in the open world that we didn't have at HW early patches. People liking to watch it is not going to keep them subbed, because you can just go to twitch and watch it while never opening the game. It gives a very small percentage of the playerbase something to do, and while thats ok for them, SE cannot base the future stream of content on this.

Their stated goal was to reduce content slightly to increase experimental content, but the way they are doing it is by releasing niche things that fail to really keep people into the game. That's how all the content I listed fails. PPl are focusing on ultimate, but all content is like this that they have released.

[AxlStream]

People who sell runs for ultimate are scum, for two reasons.

1. They are probably selling it for real world money. There isn't anything worthwhile for gil in this game beyond a certain point. Even if they wanted it, given that they are all advertising cross server makes it impossible, since converting that quantity of gil would take more items than AHs have for sale or people have inventory for.
2. They are probably logging in to the players account to do it, unless somehow people can reliably run ultimate with a 7 man and one on the floor.

Let's go with an easy 2 words. Prove it.

Without undeniable proof, you're just spouting nonsense to SE. Also, what does it matter if they sell content for gil or dollars? You're just upset people can actually get paid clearing stuff while you struggle with easier encounters I feel.

[Remedi]

Ultimate was not designed to be a game saver and eureka wasn't either.
They were designed to appease a part of the community not all of them, which is good regardless.

Besides content is labeled as a failure if it doesn't get support, if content gets support it isn't a failure at all.

[RiyahArp]

Let's go with an easy 2 words. Prove it.

Why would anyone sell the hardest fight in this game for a resource anyone can get more than enough of absurdly easily? Gil gates nothing in this game. The FCs that do this kind of stuff probably already have crafting wings that supply raid food and potions, if gil matters just being able to four star armor in this game means you can easily earn all you need. Gil is worthless in this game beyond the 20 mil you need for a mansion, because everything that matters or has status is gated behind playing. Nothing gil can buy you will ever give the status of having what that ultimate weapon means.

And you still have the issue of doing the hardest content in this game with seven people if you do it legit an the run seller is with you. Not savage, where it's possible; i didn't say ppl who sell those do so. Ultimate. Content that took the best guilds in this game 3 weeks compared to normal savage of one day to clear. So count me suspicious as hell.

[KaivaC]

Who ever said that Ultimate was supposed to save FFXIV? You're just making things up as you go along. And without proof on top of that. And now you're drawing a line between Eureka and Ultimate? Are you even seeing what you're typing right now?

[RiyahArp]

Kaiva my overall point is that the strategy of releasing niche experimental content is a failure because its not reaching enough people. People are defending ultimate, but even ultimate is a failure if that is the aim, because it's like all the other content. The content they release dries up, but the amount of people that does it and is satisfied by it is much less. Ultimate is just shocking for people to hear being trashed apparently; you can replace it with submarine missions if it bugs you, which is just as stupid content.

[Tridus]

Kaiva my overall point is that the strategy of releasing niche experimental content is a failure because its not reaching enough people. People are defending ultimate, but even ultimate is a failure if that is the aim, because it's like all the other content. The content they release dries up, but the amount of people that does it and is satisfied by it is much less. Ultimate is just shocking for people to hear being trashed apparently; you can replace it with submarine missions if it bugs you, which is just as stupid content.

Since you hate everything, maybe it's time to go play another game. There's lots of them out there.

[KaivaC]

Your overall point was fine, except the comments about Ultimate because it makes absolutely no sense. It's not supposed to reach everyone. It's not meant for me, it's not meant for a lot of players on the forum, it's definitely not meant for you. Again, as has been stated not only by myself and many other forum posters, but also on record by the devs themselves, this is only for elite players. After they clear it, they move on, as they are supposed to do. I have no idea how you keep trying to draw a parallel to other, more important issues plaguing FFXIV. Quit it. The argument you leo making about Ultimate makes no sense.