The WOL and Mass Murder

[Ilenya]

considering the way the game is written, It would be more likely that people take notice of how Powerful we are and start worshiping us to the point they create a Primal Doppelganger, something that's an exaggeration of how powerful we are, yet even more complacent to follow the whims of its followers

To be fair, there's a very real chance we may somehow be forced to becoming a primal with the sheer amount of faith the WoL has. It's almost amazing the original WoL weren't turned into primals with what we know.

[Toranja]

We've already had that. It was called 2.5.

[Delily]

To be fair, there's a very real chance we may somehow be forced to becoming a primal with the sheer amount of faith the WoL has. It's almost amazing the original WoL weren't turned into primals with what we know.

Without a significant, concentrated amount of aether, faith alone will not summon a primal into being. That's why Thordan needed Niddhogg's eye, as it was an almost infinite reservoir of aether.

[Delily]

The Namazu thing was a joke - they changed everyone's avatars to some version of a Namazu for April Fool's.

Anyway, pertaining to the Echo, it's capable of doing much more than the Warrior of Light uses it for. The Ascians and Warriors of Darkness use it to cross dimensions and attain effective immortality, Fordola used it to achieve a combat state akin to Dragon Ball Super's Ultra Instinct, and Zenos used it to possess Shinryu. That said, the Warrior of Light has displayed none of these abilities or expressed the desire to obtain them. As it stands the Warrior of Light is just an exceptionally skilled and talented fighter who happens to be temper-proof - other than persistent superstitions about Echo users, the Eorzean city-states have no reason to fear the Warrior of Light or be jealous of their power. On the contrary, the Warrior of Light is repeatedly entrusted with the fate of nations and various characters (the Scions and GC leaders, f'ex) show guilt and remorse over asking them to shoulder such a heavy burden time and again.

No, the Echo has manifested itself more that just boosting our combat ability. We can see the pasts of those around us. I believe more than a few NPCs have hinted that should we put the effort in, we could control that. Also both Lahabrea and Igeyorhm implied we could tear open dimensions. The reason we see most telegraphs is due to the Echo. If you do the summoner questline, it's mentioned that we could control stronger egis and even primals, but it's too risky because we might lose control. To even BE a summoner you need the Echo (or very lucky) because you need to be around when a primal is defeated so that you absorb some of it's aether, which then allows you to make aetheric constructs of it and not just carbuncles.

Because of the way encounters work, there's little sense as to just how powerful the WoL truly is, but again, the NPCs tend to comment on how you're the most vicious fighter they've seen.

[Rayo]

Without a significant, concentrated amount of aether, faith alone will not summon a primal into being. That's why Thordan needed Niddhogg's eye, as it was an almost infinite reservoir of aether.

Not to Mention, i think one has to willingly take in the Aether to become capable of turning into a Primal.

Also I imagine if this were ever to become a plot, it would be just one more way for the Ascians to spite you after death aka somehow creating a group to worship your legend until its twisted into a perversion of what you stand for and who you are.

[Enkidoh]

No, the Echo has manifested itself more that just boosting our combat ability. We can see the pasts of those around us. I believe more than a few NPCs have hinted that should we put the effort in, we could control that.

You don't actually 'see' the literal past, you're just viewing someone's memories of an event that person lived through, and after all, memories are an imperfect recording of such events (also in regards to 'controlling' that, 1.0 did that specifically in that the Echo was actually depicted much differently to how it is in ARR - in 1.0 an Echo scene was virtually indistinguishable from reality, other than a very subtle 'woosh' effect at the start, thus it was very confusing early one telling where the Echo started and reality ended. Thus the change in ARR, where it is now depicted rather like an old grainy and sepia-toned video recording, so that there is no question that you are in the Echo here.

Part of me misses the old style of the Echo though, nontheless because Minfilia actually taught you how to control it (in other words, at certain points in the storyline you were literally prompted by the game to "use the power of the Echo?" which would trigger an Echo scene if you said yes.). Now it's done automatically whether you want to or not and Minfilia simply handwaved it away by lamenting that "it's a pity we cannot use whenever we chose", which I scoffed at when she said it.

The reason we see most telegraphs is due to the Echo.

I just want to point out that this is nonsense, nowhere is it ever mentioned in the game that our Echo power allows us to 'see' another's attacks before they happen, ability telegraphs are simply a GUI mechanic that has no bearing on the storyline.

[SaitoHikari]

I just want to point out that this is nonsense, nowhere is it ever mentioned in the game that our Echo power allows us to 'see' another's attacks before they happen, ability telegraphs are simply a GUI mechanic that has no bearing on the storyline.

Uh... You're going to want to replay the cutscenes after Castrum Albania and the whole deal with defeating Fordola afterwards. The artificial Echo allowed Fordola to do exactly that (and overpower Alisae because of it), forcing Urianger to create a device to overload her senses - and in order for it to work, we had to be kept in the dark as to exactly how the device worked so that Fordola wouldn't be able to see the plan beforehand.

[Enkidoh]

Uh... You're going to want to replay the cutscenes after Castrum Albania and the whole deal with defeating Fordola afterwards. The artificial Echo allowed Fordola to do exactly that (and overpower Alisae because of it), forcing Urianger to create a device to overload her senses - and in order for it to work, we had to be kept in the dark as to exactly how the device worked so that Fordola wouldn't be able to see the plan beforehand.

I did consider Fordola's Resonance power, but I dismissed it on account of the fact it's synthetic, and thus does not share the same origin as the real Echo (which is granted by Hydaelyn). So who is to say that Aulus 'tinkered' with it to 'enhance' the effects, adding some kind of 'battle instinct' to it, which would make sense, Fordola being specifically a soldier after all (remember, Hydaelyn does not specifically seek out only soldiers/fighters when She grants the power of the Echo, many smallfolk with no fighting experience are also awoken to it, so having some kind of subtle 'battle instinct' as it's power would be utterly redundant.).

And even if you don't take that into account, Aulus based the Resonance on Krile, who, correct me if I am wrong, was mentioned in the past as not actually being that potent in the Echo, but whose specific Echo-specialty was the ability to speak to beasts and monsters, and thus, wouldn't that therefore mean being able to predict just what an enemy is going to do before they do it? Our own Echo is mostly limited to the ability to understand any language without having already learned it and being able to view another's memories - our prowess in battle stems more from just plain guts and determination (although the Echo and the Blessing both enhance that).

Anyway, I'm sorry if I came across as harsh there, in hindsight I could have worded that better. I'm really sorry about that. My point was though is that no explanation for being able to 'see' an enemy's attacks before they happen is even needed, as it's pointless, it's a game mechanic, nothing more.

[Keever]

snip

This is fan interpretation, and it doesn't jive with the concept of AoE markers that well. Fordola is able to anticipate your combat impulses through 'sensing' your soul, and counterattacking. AoE markers, on the other hand, appear for things that don't have souls, like falling rocks and don't appear for many other attacks which they definitely would if we had Fordola's ability, right down to autoattacks and boss ultimates. In 1.0 we didn't even have AoE markers. Not to mention, if it was revealed that we did have Fordola's power that would feel a lot like 'cheating' which is something the writers are always quick to point out is not something the WoL does. Stuff like borrowing Hraesvelgr's eye is always justified with a line like 'this is just to protect you from his worst attacks, it's your own skill that lets you defeat him'. That, and you'd expect there to be some direct acknowledgement in the dialogue talking about Fordola's ability to directly relate it to the WoL's capabilities if that were in fact the case.

As it is, we don't have any solid, definite reason to assume that AoE markers, first and foremost a GUI mechanic, have a lore explanation. It's like having a buff named 'the Echo' on old fights: kinda lore-flavoured, but not strictly real.

[Cilia]

Contradictions:

No, the Echo has manifested itself more that just boosting our combat ability.

The Warrior of Light is not known to use the Echo to boost their combat abilities, or even be able to. (The "Echo" buff given when failing old content is most likely just a gameplay mechanic given a slight lore gloss - why doesn't the Warrior of Light use it right away, for example?)

Also both Lahabrea and Igeyorhm implied we could tear open dimensions.

In the context of the fight against the Ascian Prime, it's implied that the Echo literally grants the power to violate Hydaelyn's laws ("What walls are these?! Damn you, Hydaelyn!"), at least as far as the separation of souls goes. This idea actually does fit most if not all of the applications we've seen the Echo used for (beyond the aforementioned gameplay applicaton).

The reason we see most telegraphs is due to the Echo.

If you want to lore explain attack telegraphs with the Echo, you need to have something that works with everything. Autonomous warmachina still have the same telegraphs despite being machines, and whether primals have genuine souls is highly debatable, but they produce the same telegraphs as everything else.

If you do the summoner questline, it's mentioned that we could control stronger egis and even primals, but it's too risky because we might lose control.

As I recall the reason that was given for being unable to summon more / new egi was because egis are constructed in part out of the Summoner's own aether, of which the Warrior of Light has a limited amount (Echo or no Echo). This was why Ramuh-egi couldn't be summoned (the Warrior of Light was already using all their aether for Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda), necessitating the research into Trances to gain greater power during the Heavensward SMN arc. (How this was overcome during the Stormblood arc I can't recall, if it was explained at all).