The premium app is what finally made me unsub.

[Vstarstruck]

If the Premium Sub offers something like +5% att in Duty Finder content, then fine complain, but it's not.
Pay2Win is the concept that without doing anything in-game you can buy your way to the best gear or gear that can't be obtained by other means.

You do not see.. how what you said is conflicting?

You can get 5% attack up for duty finder content but it does not help if you do not enter the duty finder then after that, do your rotations well? THAT IS THE SAME concept with P2W with retainers. Also it is not a "5%" increase, its a 500% increase (for 21 dollars) How people are so blind to this I got no clue.

For now I am boycotting SE completely over being too cash grabby, I will not support such greed, an lazyness when it comes to fixing core coding, no they rush out 2.0 so they can charge us more later. I do not play any EA games or any other games that pull this nonsense, this is the first time being personally exposed to it and I will not support it at all.

Not only has there been several threads made, but other different people in different threads are posting how they are unsubing over this as well.

"The coins are a way to limit the use of the app and honestly for those who think being able to change the price of an item you sell through the app at the cost of a coin is an advantage. . . it's not." do we play the same game? do you know the advantage you have having the top listing consistly? it does not matter if it is by 1 gil, people auto pilot buying the top listing, even if the total is more though taxes.

For the final point you are right, not many will fully exploit the app, but it only takes that ONE PERSON to fully exploit the app to full control the MB. With how the MB is set up in general, makes it easy for one person to control it, just no one has yet for whatever reason, with this app though it does make that a hell a lot easier to do, while making people pay absurdly high amount of money in microtransactions for someone with that goal (so the person needs to be rich in rl and ig, and im not sure if that exists or not, may never see it because of that, but that does not change the fact the ability is there, so chances are high someone will do it.)

I really don't get why people feel the need to mention these are optional services.

There's only 1 thing that's not optional in this game and that's whatever prerequisite is forced upon you in order to play the optional content you want to play.

Because people love white knighting SE

IF F2P games are so great why are people comparing it to a game that is not a F2P to begin with? Just silently quit and go play something else. We the poor souls that enjoy this game and don't mind paying for things that we choose to do will waste our funds to help enhance a need that we have and SE is meeting based on their business model.

White knight statements like this are annoying, to think people see this as logic is mind boggling. I am sure EA will love you are your spokesperson. Where is that picture about SE in "what they learned"? that pic goes against everything said here.

Also it is compared to a F2P game because that is the model SE is using while being gated on a base sub, completely uncalled for. There is a difference of trying to make money and blatantly ripping people off with shady tactics, in case you did not know, there is even groups and government agencies made to combat this very thing. I am not saying SE went that far though, but this is a reply to "you do know what the number one rule of a business is right? this is not a charity type of business in case people have not noticed. " It can get so bad you are the cause of government regulation (EA)

Yes XI is still charging 12.99 for 1 character.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/envi/charge.html


Basic Service Fee (*2)
$11.95(or 1,195Crysta)

Character Fee
$1.00(or 100Crysta)

Mog Wardrobe 3 Fee (*3)
$2.00(or 200Crysta)

Mog Wardrobe 4 Fee (*3)
$2.00(or 200Crysta)




So what you are saying is Gil and market board is P2W? Lol
You have to remember these market board features through the app is very very niche and won't affect the bigger community or economics.

Not to forget the argument about extra retainers, why have people in your corner been silent on that for years?

Nice try but no, FFXI had a lot of additions for free, one was gated by a 1 time payment for a token. It would be like getting a 3rd bag of 140 slots. FFXIV made very little attempt for that kind of improvement, and what they do improve on is gated by excessive fees.

It's exactly why we should not judge it too soon. I trust SE and while a premium subscription seems unfair based on ideals that some how this game is being compared to F2P games by many players( knowing they pay a subscription and has optional services ) is beyond the realm of common sense apparently.

Take Eureka, they released patch notes as well many hated , many liked , some of us completed during he first week while others complained from day 1 that it was too hard or unfair. Even with patch notes players comprehension skills are questionable claiming that they read it and even reported being ko'd and returning was giving them an XP penalty. When I read those I was -.-;; yeah sure you read those notes. Based on their track record SE is one of the few companies I can say I'm willing to follow and even pay for optional services knowing fully aware that as a consumer is my decision and not being forced into doing so.

We are going by what they said on the slides, we can judge what they told us, and based on their track record of not taking any consideration to make adjustments before a problem comes out.

I bought extra Retainers for inventory space because I likes to horde weapon, tier gear, tome gear, and various glamour gear.
Retainer market board is secondary and often cost me much more time and effort to list items.
As you already made your mind, I wish you are good luck for your venture in other games.
Enough said, no need to beat on a dead horse since OP already made his mind, any further argument is pointless.
Just wish him farwell.

k, but what you do has nothing to do if something has a P2W concept in it or not, retainers and this app are P2W concepts.

Yeah you tell him! Quitting because of content in a 'theme park MMO' is a stupid reason! Who quits because of 'OPTIONAL' content in a 'THEME PARK' Anyway?

Why that would be like not going to disneyland because you've ridden the rides you want and they're releasing one that you don't like. /sarcasm off

Why are there so many of you incapable of understanding why there is no such thing as optional content in a game with almost all of it being optional content?

Lets make it cost 1 dollar each time you change a glam because it is "optional content" lets lock gold saucer behind 1 dollar access that only lasts for 24 hrs because it is optional content. There is a difference of adding optional content and missing features that you charge for later and only missing because you rushed the game out. This is the only way people can protest these shady practices. Your post has a more detailed reply here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...if-it-continue

[Mahrze]

So explain to me EXACTLY how the apps existence effects in anyway, shape, or form your CHOICE whether or not to use it? The only reason you even have a CHOICE is because it exists, so saying that you have no choice because it exists defy's logic.

It doesn't because you're creating a nuance where it wasn't. Their original message was about how you don't have a choice on something that was coming out anyway. You decided to try to create a point out of a misconstruction you made. Which you still are now.

They never talked about: "you can use it or not" They talked about how you can always make a choice on doing/using any content the game releases, thus saying something "is a choice" is redundant when even the whole concept of playing the game is a choice.

So, no. You're not logically wrong. You're just going down a road that wasn't what the person you have been discoursing with (besides me) was. Does this address your question?

[ManuelBravo]

And in equal respect I ask you: Who is FFXIV really competing with? It's only other direct competitor in the same business model is WoW, and it pales when comparing sub numbers alone. The F2P MMOs? Most of them you buy the main game/expac and don't bother with subs, due to the "freemium" options.

We're not business people and we certainly can understand the "keep it a surprise". But its not, it never is because they already talk about it to a degree. A surprise would've been never expecting the app at all (or the XIV Go App to have been the real app all along). The real surprise to a number of people was never disclosing it'll come with its own business model.
And this is again, looping back to poor communication. We can address that they do it in the "legal sense" and the upgrade campaign is a good example of communication that they handled well, credit where its due, but we can also show credit where its been... interesting to see them crash and burn with their hype, let alone the recent display of "disconnect" with the western side of the community in regards to the alliance loot change

All in all, they do things right and they do things right on the legal manner and that's fine. Business be business. The rest of the points, like LL translations, the EU issue with the maid/butler promos to name a few are instances where communication is not on point. Game wise, there's plenty that has been said that hasn't met the expectations they set, housing is the best example of something that has had horrid communication issues of expectation vs result.




I think here we're overlapping and cross-sampling things

Players wanted: An app that allowed them to keep interacting with the game to a degree
Players got: exactly what they asked with a catch: money. Catch because: they weren't expecting to pay for certain features.

Company wanted: an app that addressed the request the players made.
Company gave: exactly what players asked but added a "premium" to make the service sustainable from those who're willing to pay for it and in turn, they (said players and company) get "a little extra".

The problem doesn't fall on where the ideas overlap, it where they didn't and the lack of transparency behind it. If they had said "off the bat" that it would come with costs, the consumer would've given them an early indicator of appeal. Regardless of drama, the feedback would've been early enough to consider the costs of this overall.

(the lack of) Communication is the reason: People (don't) understand what/how/why is being offered. It's not the product that its at fault. Its the communication one party is unable (albeit not incapable) of offering and the other party being unable to get the (reliable) information it needs to understand.

Besides Blizzard there are other games, Morrowind, Reveletion, Tera, Rift, Warframe are just a few examples for one. They give you the option to play and some offer advantages buy using cash shops, VIP subscriptions which runs the same concept. There are many more that use the same concept. To keep it brief there is plenty of competitors, and just like any other DLC out there they offers some type of incentive in either game currency, gear, which by choice we as the consumer get. One of my personal favorites is Morrowind,more complex and is pretty much the same thing they are offering, with daily currency, more xp, just with in the game instead of the app. So yes FFXIV has competition FFXIV is just less complex than others which in fact focuses on reaching casual players. Morrowind is way way more complex, compare to FFXIV ,I doubt most players would stick with it. FFXIV has a very entertaining story line which is really one of the main reason I even subscribe to this game.

The examples of cross sampling things is just an enhanced feature and SE is just profiting from the supply and demand. I can see both sides of the coin and I'm more of a logical person than an emotional. So while I sympathize with peoples emotional perspective it still does not change the fact that it is a choice.

[ManuelBravo]

White knight statements like this are annoying, to think people see this as logic is mind boggling. I am sure EA will love you are your spokesperson. Where is that pictureabout SE in "what they learned"? that pic goes against everything said here.

Also it is compared to a F2P game because that is the model SE is using while being gated on a base sub, completely uncalled for. There is a difference of trying to make money and blatantly ripping people off with shady tactics, in case you did not know, there is even groups and government agencies made to combat this very thing. I am not saying SE went that far though, but this is a reply to "you do know what the number one rule of a business is right? this is not a charity type of business in case people have not noticed. " It can get so bad you are the cause of government regulation (EA)

First of I don't like EA games and even sent them a video of destroying their disc that I purchase as a sign that I don't want to be affiliated with their company; that is how you boycott and make your point known. Which brings up my next questions...as I recall and understand that you are leaving for good unless SE gets their act together....why are you still here? I thought you said your leaving for good in earlier post? I know your excuse is your waiting for your next billing period right? If people are really not supporting a company then why even bother making more comments? Silence is Golden, your points have been made and repeated more times that I can remember in multiple threads.

I defend logical points, have an open mind for emotional driven comments, however if they can't make a logical point that seems proper I only question it. I've had some nice debates and can understand certain things and placing labels of others just do to their perspective in supporting a company is just funny to see. A white Knight, I'm more of a devil's advocate.

Here is how SE see's it in their terms of use.

11.8 Changes to this User Agreement. Square Enix reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to change, modify, add to, supplement or delete any of the terms and conditions of this User Agreement or the way that the Game operates at any time. Square Enix will notify you of such changes in one of the following ways at its sole discretion: through a patch, email, postal mail, website posting, pop-up screen or in-game notice. If you do not agree to any such change or modification, you may terminate this User Agreement by uninstalling the Licensed Software and destroying your copy(ies). Your continued use of the Game following any revision to this User Agreement will demonstrate your full acceptance of any and all such changes.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...1&tag=users_en

[KaldeaSahaline]

Mhm. Just one example, but there are many more like it floating around the multitude of threads that exist about the topic already. So much as even thinking that they're putting more resources into optional purchases than the main game is absolutely ludicrous and you should feel bad for thinking it.

In no way shape or form did I say that they are putting more resources into the cash shop than the game. That'd be a staggeringly asinine statement.

I said that they were putting MORE resources into the cash shop than they have PREVIOUSLY, things that COULD and SHOULD have been in the game.

Two VERY different statements, but I will concede I could have probably worded it more clearly.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

True, however people are already judging it and it still has not been released.

Has it ever occurred to you they are judging based on prior experiences, be it with other companies or SE themselves. Bear in mind, SE attempted the whole "Augment Your Preorder" nonsense and only backed down when inundated with an overwhelming amount of backlash and a dislike ratio over 90% on their Youtube trailer. Basically, they stopped when people kept complaining hence why plenty are complaining now. Then you look at EA or Activision and it makes sense why people "judge" ahead of time. SE can thank the game industry it's apart of for the negative reception to micro-transactions. If they want good PR... look to Naughty Dog and CD Projekt Red, who haven't tried to nickel and dime their customers. It's almost like people don't like that.

Companies hide behind the "Optional content" excuse hoping people won't notice them double dipping. EA did it with lootboxes, which were technically optional. That doesn't mean people have to like it.

[Vstarstruck]

First of I don't like EA games and even sent them a video of destroying their disc that I purchase as a sign that I don't want to be affiliated with their company; that is how you boycott and make your point known. Which brings up my next questions...as I recall and understand that you are leaving for good unless SE gets theiract together....why are you still here? I thought you said your leaving for good in earlier post? I know your excuse is your waiting for your next billing period right? If people are really not supporting a company then why even bother making more comments? Silence is Golden, your points have been made and repeated more times that I can remember in multiple threads.

I defend logical points, have an open mind for emotional driven comments, however if they can't make a logical point that seems proper I only question it. I've had some nice debates and can understand certain things and placing labels of others just do to their perspective in supporting a company is just funny to see. A white Knight, I'm more of a devil's advocate.

Here is how SE see's it in their terms of use.

11.8 Changes to this User Agreement. Square Enix reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to change, modify, add to, supplement or delete any of the terms and conditions of this User Agreement or the way that the Game operates at any time. Square Enix will notify you of such changes in one of the following ways at its sole discretion: through a patch, email, postal mail, website posting, pop-up screen or in-game notice. If you do not agree to any such change or modification, you may terminate this User Agreement by uninstalling the Licensed Software and destroying your copy(ies). Your continued use of the Game following any revision to this User Agreement will demonstrate your full acceptance of any and all such changes.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...1&tag=users_en

You do understand how the game works right? my sub is canceled, I get to post for 14 days after that, and that is almost expired, I explained that several times to you and others.

Some others posted in different quitting threads about being unsubed CURRENTLY while that free return campaign allows them to post, so if you actually took the time to understand what is going on, you would know this.

Ok, so someone clear this up for me. What EXACTLY does this app provide. I mean the exacts of what it gives you. If I pay $5 a month, what am I being offered exactly. I dont want "Well it could lead to 'X'" or "Essentially itll be used to do 'Y'", I just want the exacts of what it provides.

UI feature that should been in the base game for a while, retainer to retainer item movement, an option to buy 10th retainer for 2 more dollars
so 21 dollars for 8 extra retainers, people are fed up with the "add 2 dollar here" then time later "2 more dollar a month.

app also has microtransaction to change prices of your listing on MB, effectly making MB management pay to win.

[Melichoir]

Ok, so someone clear this up for me. What EXACTLY does this app provide. I mean the exacts of what it gives you. If I pay $5 a month, what am I being offered exactly. I dont want "Well it could lead to 'X'" or "Essentially itll be used to do 'Y'", I just want the exacts of what it provides.

[LeoLupinos]

Not another thread just add to existing ones your points of view have already been covered several times.... Besides it helps your cause to add to existing ones...and like any other thread quitting do to OPTIONAL services ...good riddance.

What is the limit of "optional" content to you? Everyone have different limits for it. When "optional" content is able to optionaly pay more to receive more, it is still optional, but is it right? Is it right to be able to purchase 35$ of Sub and earn more space, more gil, more mats, more marcket power, housing economic control where everyone should be equal as it is a subscription MMO, known for to not bother with cash shop advantages to who pay more? What it will be in the future? SURELY not less than what we are suffering.

[Divinemights]

k, but what you do has nothing to do if something has a P2W concept in it or not, retainers and this app are P2W concepts.[/url]

Only the people ignored the fundamental law of supply and demand will claim Retainers is pay to win.
In this simulated market board economy, demand is fixed (number of crafter) but supply is number of active player base.
The number of market slots do not give you advantage.
No matter how many time you can potentially list item, they are not going to sell if there is no demand.
Such hyperbole argument is exactly like those complains about undercutting when they are totally ignored the fact this simulated FF14 market board is an open free market.

Either way, since you already announced you have un-subbed over this still in-development APP, what is your stake here?