Please let us buy gil since it's not pay to win.

[Divinemights]

This is flat out lies.

Not necessarily a lie, it is probably because he has a better marketing sense in choose which item to sell and how to sell it quick.
There is always a good merchant and a lot bad merchants

[KaivaC]

I do not care if you said "'let's just say you are correct and leave it at that'." I thought it was obvious I did not. You said you "could not find it anywhere" and I was confused by this since it was posted everywhere, so I thought id show it anyway to see if you had more to say on the matter. Since you do not, I see it as you do not want to admit being wrong what SE is doing is P2W.

Word twisting, what I claimed that was moving the goal posts is not what you are stating. What I was trying to show was your definition of P2W with the stat potions is no different then the retainers. So if you think stat potions are P2W and the app/retainers are not, you are moving goal posts, you either think both are P2W or both are not P2W because your own logic fits both situations.
again:

So basically, even in the event when I showed you some humility, explained that I didn't agree, and then said that you were still valid, you continue to push on and on with this need to feel like you are superior and 100% in the right? So because I won't change my opinion, I am 100% in the wrong? I pretty much told you that I stopped looking after a certain point, hence why I said 'you are correct'. But for reasons, I guess, that's just not enough. Again, I don't view the retainer situation as P2W. But that's just my opinion. If you still take issue with that, even though I'm not necessarily arguing that point to you right now, then I don't know what else to say.

[JackHatchet]

Not necessarily a lie, it is probably because he has a better marketing sense in choose which item to sell and how to sell it quick.
There is always a good merchant and a lot bad merchants

No, you don't understand, and your logic is being silly.

You can't compare a good player with a handicap to a bad player with no handicap and call them "about even." That's a stupid way to make comparisons. You have to be mature about it. You have to compare a skilled player with 2 retainers to a skilled player with 10 retainers.

Yes, a skilled player can make great use out of 40 slots. But a skilled player can make even greater use out of 40 slots + (10x20) slots. That's basic math. It's impossible to argue against it without making up some wonky fallacy about non-skilled players squandering their potential.

[JackHatchet]

A good example of when having 8 retainers helped me make a lot more gil than having 2 is when Shirogane housing came out. And again when they added more wards. Can you simply imagine the amount of gil made from having 8 retainers selling 20X furniture items each on a housing release week? Yes, there was skill and coordination involved in making sure all my retainers were primed to take advantage of that event. But that doesn't change the fact that I made probably 300 million in one week selling furniture while probably stealing everyone else's furniture market simply because I had unfair advantage provide by real-life money (8 retainers). Now if that isn't pay to win--I don't know what is.

It was even worse, because I didn't just have 8 retainers. I had 16, because I paid for a boost on an alt to skip the MSQ so I could access retainers without doing MSQ. Yes. I have a level 1 alt with the MSQ boost that does nothing but sit at the market board and flip furniture.

The retainers have clearly given me an edge in making gil. And I hate it. I hate that I have to spend like 30 bucks a month on patch days to capitalize on marketing boom. But I do it. So if retainers = more gil potential why not just let us buy gil?

[ManuelBravo]

It's not hard to make gil in this game -.- people are just lazy. Is it really that hard to understand that gil buyers / sellers are a plague to the economical balance of the game?

[Divinemights]

It's not hard to make gil in this game -.- people are just lazy. Is it really that hard to understand that gil buyers / sellers are a plague to the economical balance of the game?

You will be surprized.
This account has two retainers only but already made off around 40 millions by simply buy low sell high at market board.
It starts with default 0 gil and did not involves selling items from NPC, just pure market price manipulation
Making gil is so easy in this game.

[JackHatchet]

If gil is easy and value-less then we should allow people to trade it for real-life American dollars.

[ManuelBravo]

You will be surprized.
This account has two retainers only but already made off around 40 millions by simply buy low sell high at market board.
It starts with default 0 gil and did not involves selling items from NPC, just pure market price manipulation
Making gil is so easy in this game.

I don't see anything wrong with that, supply and demand, buy low sell high, seems like a correct mindset for a business. I'm not surprise I manipulate the MB myself and does not take a degree to use common sense Not breaking the terms of use, just using real life common sense. IF SE allowed RMT it's be like a side business to those who know how to. So therefor I doubt they will allow it.

IF people think buying gil is not a manner of paying to win, they are playing to many app games to realize their being used. It's the same principle. Gil you don't earn is paying to win in some type of advantage.

[Divinemights]

If gil is easy and value-less then we should allow people to trade it for real-life American dollars.

Buying item from NPC then list on the market board is not an advantage.
You are basically sell npc items to lazy people and heavily depending on the demand when supply is infinite.
It doesn't mean you know how to manipulate the market.
You are going to have hard time to repeat the trick once the house rush is over.
This is why you are in your current situation, paying for retainer for market slot but demand is no longer there.

[JackHatchet]

Buying item from NPC then list on the market board is not an advantage.
You are basically sell npc items to lazy people and heavily depending on the demand when supply is infinite.
It doesn't mean you know how to manipulate the market.
You are going to have hard time to repeat the trick once the house rush is over.

I don't even know what you're talking about. I'm saying that you must obviously be pro selling/buying of gil via real-life American dollars, because gil is so easy to obtain that it provides no real advantage. I don't give a crap about how you make. Just taking your stance on it.