Stop with the pay to win advanages for retainers, suggestions on fixes

[Embercrisp]

lol number 1 they didn't say that you get a free retainer you just have the option to buy an additional one. More chocobo sack is cool but I still haven't even used up all my room for the 1st one. I haven't even used up room for my retainers. I have also been playing since 2013 with all jobs 60+ except SAM. I don't in the slightest think the premium is pay to win. Even if it did come with a free retainer. Still need to farm more for ventures or do hunts more for ventures >.> I get why the premium version of the app is garbo but it is not pay to win. We've have the option for 8 retainers for a long time and now we get some more you all get your panties in a bunch?

[JohnnyDevo]

The line was crossed exactly when they put the jump pots in the cash shop.

I'm glad you brought that up, actually, because I wanted to address it but couldn't figure where to stick the wall of text.

Jump potions are a unique case. Because we're two expansions into the game, we're invariably going to have people who look at what they need to do to get to the end game and enjoy it with all of their friends and think "... wow. That's way too much. I'm gonna go play league instead".

Do the potions get you the best gear faster? No, because you still have to actually play the end-game with a class you're capable on in order to get that gear.
Do the potions get you a direct advantage over other players? No, because it doesn't even get you to max level. You still have to work though the hardest part of the levelling yourself.

The only reason the jump potions break the rules I outlined is because it technically allows players to get to something a bit faster than base subscription players. But the difference is that most first-timers will not do so because they still care about playing through the story. For the others? Jump potions are actually necessary for the population health of this game.

[Vstarstruck]

Maybe for some people, but for me, jump potions never made me think I wasted my time levelling my jobs to 60. If anything, it gives me an advantage over those (newbies specifically) who did spend money, since I know how to play the Job.

Leveling a job don't teach you how to play. All those people with level 70 or even mentor? still need basic rotation advice. Jump potions is just a scape goat to something that was always a problem. The only thing I would liked to see is some kind of teaching for those that use it, but level cap content needs some kind of gating so you are not getting people with i283 or lower in gear slots because they cba to do the level 70 job quest that gives you gear and for most jobs an important ability.

lol number 1 they didn't say that you get a free retainer you just have the option to buy an additional one. More chocobo sack is cool but I still haven't even used up all my room for the 1st one. I haven't even used up room for my retainers. I have also been playing since 2013 with all jobs 60+ except SAM. I don't in the slightest think the premium is pay to win. Even if it did come with a free retainer. Still need to farm more for ventures or do hunts more for ventures >.> I get why the premium version of the app is garbo but it is not pay to win. We've have the option for 8 retainers for a long time and now we get some more you all get your panties in a bunch?

Do people just reply to the title or something? None of this addresses my point at all.

First off "lol number 1 they didn't say that you get a free retainer you just have the option to buy an additional one. " This is an insanely arrogant tone to a claim that was never made. Also as far as we know, we do not know if it is an extra 5 dollars or 7, it was not clear. That is not the point. The point is this P2W app gives you another retainer in some form.

Second, what is the point in stating what you got leveled and how long you have been playing for? How does this "experience" matter if you think if it is pay to win or not? Also stating it like this means you are missing my point. I am not talking about the impacts of combat, for some reason people think that is all that matters. I care about the MB's stability and it is not fair someone can spend tons of money for spam undercuts to Pay to win the MB. Then when you look at retainer cost, it is insane to have a sub on top of a sub (8 retainers = sub) then have a new sub on top of that with mircotranstions that push PtW concept further when it comes to the MB system as standlone. Also people do sell runs for gil so how is that not P2W anyway? (getting extra income due to extra retainers then paying a group to clear ex trials, savage etc?)

That last sentence is a bit off point but the main thing is, if you look at the MB as its own system and letting rich people spam undercutting, how is it not pay to win? You pay RL money for an advantage, that is pay to win. It is invalid to say "it is not pay to win" "MB does not matter for progression" is not a defense, you are still paying real money that impacts gameplay balance, thus it fits how one defines pay to win.

[Reynhart]

This could give a bigger team of people the necessary means to raid nearly right after the patch went active.

Which only matters if you raid in a competitive way, and those CL already covers everything they need because they have 6 months of preparation. And again, gathering and crafting will give you access to anything without needing gils.

Another example: You have two people with the exact amount of time to check on the marketboard and change prices. Now 1 month before the new patch Yoshida tells us about a new limited housing zone with huge prices. The one with more retainers will make more Gil in that month thus has an advantage for that content.

And the one who'll buy the house he wants will be the first one to log in, regardless of the amount of gils.

The same with new glamours, pets and mounts.

No item in this game is on limited supply, so there's no competition on that. Although, if you want all mounts and pets, you'll have to go to the cash shop, wich will probably more infuriating for collectors.

[RokkuEkkusu]

IDC really. If a crafter/gatherer has some OCD of undercutting by one gil or by massive, it is ultimately up to the buyers of the Market Boards to entertain these people with purchases and stuff. This is the case regardless if there is an app or no app.

It really doesn't affect me much anyway since I don't need/want to use an app to maintain my inventory and retainers. I am fine just with the items, glam, and housing stuff I have right now.

[KisaiTenshi]

Maybe for some people, but for me, jump potions never made me think I wasted my time levelling my jobs to 60. If anything, it gives me an advantage over those (newbies specifically) who did spend money, since I know how to play the Job.

I'm glad you brought that up, actually, because I wanted to address it but couldn't figure where to stick the wall of text.

See, I'm the opposite here. I see "jump pots" as a straight up flipping the bird to all the players who actually played the content, learned all the fight choreography, etc. There is no way to implement such a thing and not have a detrimental effect on the player base.

Then PotD just taught people to zerg everything. Forget strategy, forget using skills, just spam the thing that does the most damage.

If SE is seriously going down this road of "squeeze for more money using less content" then eventually we're going to hit a point where something "better" comes out, and everyone will drop FFXIV and WoW like a hot potato except those who have sunk costs into the game and are unwilling to let it go. See people who still play Everquest, even Ultima Online.

But look no further than SOE aka Daybreak games (current owners of EQ.) The most mismanaged MMO's ever. Buggy, poorly supported, full of P2W shenanigans. P2W stuff makes the game worse. Every time. I want to see the brakes put on any more P2W rubbish.

[Nestama]

Leveling a job don't teach you how to play. All those people with level 70 or even mentor? still need basic rotation advice. Jump potions is just a scape goat to something that was always a problem. The only thing I would liked to see is some kind of teaching for those that use it, but level cap content needs some kind of gating so you are not getting people with i283 or lower in gear slots because they cba to do the level 70 job quest that gives you gear and for most jobs an important ability.

I mostly mean that by levelling the Job from 1-60, I had the time to ease into the rotation the game was setting me up to do for end-game (I learned that using Fire III as a regular spell is wrong back in the day, just as an example). I didn't suddenly feel overwhelmed as I imagine newbies may feel when they use a jump potion.

I'm ashamed to say it took me up until level 69 to learn that Samurai does actually have (slight) positionals. Whoops.

[Remedi]

The App appears to have been designed before the gachapon/lootbox controversy and subsequent rollback by North-American publishers. Yet we still see those mechanics in the game in the Eureka boxes and the PotD sacks. You can yell all you want about RNGesus, but the fact is these mechanics are exceptionally awful and lazy.

What sparked the lootbox controversy was not the fact that they are a RNG way to get loot, but that they are a RNG microtransactions deviced to exploit your weaknesses to addict you into paying.
As such pots, eureka and any other games that have lootboxes that don't ask you for a payment upfront aren't really the same thing.

Take a close look to a gacha pull and an eureka lockbox, you don't have to wait 10 secs with progressive zooming in followed by bright lights to open an eureka lockbox. This is because gacha and paid lootboxes are designed to work on your subconsius with bright happy light to make you feel good about spending on them this is completely absent from eureka's lockboxes to the point you don't even want to open them for how tedius they are to open actually

[Keanse]

Hey guys, I just want to say that five of my retainers just brought me back a night pegasus whistle, and the 6th one brought me back a 375 weapon for my main. So now I don't have to do o8s or get to lvl 200 in potd, and with the extra mounts I got I can sell those to get a large plot and fill my house up with furniture. So glad I don't have to level my crafters and gatherers to 70 now.

My retainers are so good to me, I'm so glad they don't bring me back fish, random 51-59 items or just random junk.

With these extra selling slots my retainers provide me, I can truly dominate the game now with the most useful currency in the game known as gil. I always have stuff to sell (mostly expensive as I have six retainers) so these extra 80 slots are always full. I can buy even more furniture to fill my house with, which everyone on my server visits everyday.

Thank you square for this amazing p2w platform you have presented us with. I feel like a god amongst peasants.

[Starflake]

I keep asking because I don't find it valid enough. I have 3 retainers subbed, my friend has 6. Guess whos making more gil than the other? Me, because I'm smart about my space and I know how to play around on MB. Just giving you more retainers doesn't give you any more advantage than anyone making gil. It's like saying we do a world race where you have a ferrari and I have a old ford from 1974 and you automaticly win, but you can't even drive a car so you will lose the race either way. Again very bad arguments why it's pay to win.

This is actually quite a stupid argument, pardon my language. Your example makes no sense at all. It would make more sense if both players were equally smart about their usage of space. It doesn't matter at all that you make more money with less space. Because a player with your wit and that pays for more space to optimize will make way more money than you. In order to establish your argument you'd have to establish equal parametres to determine an advantage.

Let's say SE hypothetically releases a Damage up potion. I do 6000 DPS and the person who used the damage up potion only 5800. You could argue that he still does less and therefore this isn't pay to win. However, this makes no sense at all since you'd have to find someone who does my DPS and then increases it by 200 because of the Damage up potion. Players being less capable than you still enjoy an advantage. Just because they still don't reach the level of someone who doesn't use a feature does not make it a non-advantage, nor does it negate the fact that it is pay to win.