Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Vidu]

I feel like people understate how hard/demanding a DPS life actually is. So many people praise/kiss up to tanks and healers it blows my mind at times. I'm not talking about anyone here.. just what I notice overall. I been in parties where DPS get shit on and at the same time horrible tanks that think this is sonic the hedgehog doing spin dashes get pats on the head. Meanwhile you're just a little below 5k or whatever and you're kicked, shamed, bullied, and everything under the sun as a DPS. I know that can be different for everyone as I've seen the statement DPS gets away with not aoeing, being bad and what have you. But it just seems like we DPS get the short end of the stick. We have to work so hard to even be noticed while a normal - not even good- tank or healer gets all the hugs for just doing their job.

This isn't about anything I'm just venting from what I've seen. Maybe thats why so many people use DPS meters cause without them ALOT of DPS wouldn't be noticed for good OR bad. But I'll end this with a question. Why is that? I'm only seeing part of it cause I'm a DPS? I know people say - healing and tanking is more work- but I think it's all the same. no role works harder than another one.. we ALL have to do our part to kick butt. but maybe I'm just only seeing it this way cause ... I'm a monk.

I'm wondering if it could be that you're comparing dungeon-experience with raid/ex-primal experience here?

It sounded a bit like you were talking about tanks that arent performing great in dungeons - and compared that to dps-experience. Personally, I've never seen DPS in a normal dungeon being kicked because they dealt below 5k damage, that sounds more like a Savage/Ex-Primal scenario. And even then it makes little sense, to be honest.

I assume you know the answer to your question though - which job is the highste in demand? Tanks. Followed by healers. DPS is easly replaced.
And in case I'm right and you are comparing dungeons to raids: I think for a dungeon it doesnt matter to much to most people. Its annoying at best, but hey, just continue watching netflix and be happy that there is a tank in teh first place and you can progress. You'll be out of there in 20 minutes either way.
For a raid you either want to make serious progress or farm - both commitments over a longer period of time, so you can be picky.

Also keep in mind that other things can come in play when it comes to kicking people - like ignoring mechanics, for example.

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To share two stories of truely horrible DPS not being kicked: My friends and I were farming Skalla over the weekend to get some tank coats for the fashion report. Warrior, Whitemage and me on bard.

For one of the runs we got a second bard. Who didnt use their songs half of the time - at least I didnt get the crit-buff, while they got mine. It was slightly infuriating... specially when they spoke up at the last boss and telling our Warrior to turn it to the side to make it easier to avoid the tail - and yes, thats a good idea, I do that too. But honestly: Its a round arena, so not really needed... you can just move to a safe spot. Specially as bard you lose nothing from having to move. You do lose something from not using your freaking songs though! Damn, 2% Crit buff isnt much (even though we were losing out on their Battle Voice aswell) but as someone who really likes bard, this was frustrating.

Second story is actually worse - we got a BLM, horray, more AoE!
Turned out though: This BLM didnt know how to BLM. They did have decent gear, BLM being their only level 70, looked like it was the main... and yet... Enochian was dropped all the time, casts altered between Blizarrd III and Thunder III, Fire IV was nowhere to be seen and we dont even need to think about Triple-Flare. Their DPS was something around 900 to 1k.
Communication? Zero.
Respond to suggestions? Nada.
If there hadnt been loot up we would have kicked them before the last boss - no effort to learn, to say something, to improve... and no sign of having understood the basics of your rotation at level 70...

[Mesarthim]

Dear healers or aspiring healers: please make use of Esuna and Lucid Dreaming.

I'm just going to leave it at that due to a lousy and abandoned Deltascape 4.0 (Even despite the doom the healers couldn't keep the party alive). This is why I have a problem with essential skills being "role" skills.

[ko_]

:O

Hmm I guess that's what I mean tho. And I know you didn't mean any harm by it "just continue watching netflix and be happy that there is a tank in teh first place and you can progress. ." But I'm learning sam and about 5 times I had to -tank- cause either the tank died, or flat out sucked holding hate.. I even soloed a boss in a dungeon.. didn't die at all. Sweating bullets cause everyone else was KOed. Not one comm, not one anything. Like I feel like that's wrong. Had that been a tank - which I read happened many times or a healer they would've been praised to holy hell. Yet me a learning sam does it in 5 dungeons where I had to tank, or literally solo the last boss in the dungeon from 90%... I dunno. But I might be thinking too much into it, but for me.. as the DPS.. it's hard not to notice.

[Vidu]

Hmm I guess that's what I mean tho. And I know you didn't mean any harm by it "just continue watching netflix and be happy that there is a tank in teh first place and you can progress. ." But I'm learning sam and about 5 times I had to -tank- cause either the tank died, or flat out sucked holding hate.. I even soloed a boss in a dungeon.. didn't die at all. Sweating bullets cause everyone else was KOed. Not one comm, not one anything. Like I feel like that's wrong. Had that been a tank - which I read happened many times or a healer they would've been praised to holy hell. Yet me a learning sam does it in 5 dungeons where I had to tank, or literally solo the last boss in the dungeon from 90%... I dunno. But I might be thinking too much into it, but for me.. as the DPS.. it's hard not to notice.

To be honest: While I do see bad tanks being tolerated, I see the same for healers and DPS. What I dont see if what you're describing - that they're being praised for it. And I even main a tank and am good at it - I do get more commendations than my boyfriends amazing BLM, but its still not that I would get actual praise for it. Nor have I ever seen a band tank being praised - just tolerated, something that happens to bad healers and dps just as much.

The only dungeons that might not hold true are the early once, where people learning - and I'd like to imaging that a bad trank, whos trying and taking advice gets praised for that and to be encouraged to keep tanking. At least thats what I'm doing when I'm meeting sprout tanks in Copperbell.
...but I do the same for healers and DPS...

It is frustrating when you dont get acknowledged for doing a good job as dps, I know that - but I'd say its far from the extreme you're describing. Or maybe thats just because od NA/EU datacenter...

[Frizze]

I see, well she basically said she has no wishes to play with ungrateful people, and just put everyone that was on the same server on blacklist as it appeared they were in a pre form group, since some left right away, reflecting they got the weekly drop and just there to help someone. Doing that much to carry muti-wipe group for 14 mins and only 1 com? can you blame her?

I havent commed anyone in probly a month or two. I often forget that the option is even there. I had a streak of doing everything via PF for awhile, and at first i kept trying to comm people in those groups when i didnt have the option. Then over time i stopped looking to do it, and now when i use DF for something i often dont remember that i even can until after i/they leave. Its not that i dont appreciate the group members i get who dont suck, its that i literally have to re-learn how to comm people who deserve it.

You would not notice the healers repeatedly dying? or having 3-5 dead at times?

I might not. If i glance at the party list, its usually to see if i need to use mana shift on someone. How did they get low on mana? I have no idea from a quick glance. And unless half the party is dead at that exact moment i may not know about it. And since shift will be on cooldown for the next two mins, i may not look again for awhile.

[Vstarstruck]

Overwriting the shields just makes them less effective because their potency relies on how much damage is healed by the underlying Adloquium/Aspected Benefic, so AST's Aspected Benefic creates a weaker shield than Adloqium, but Helios/Succor produce the same weaker shields. So overwriting Adloqium with Aspected Benefic, or spamming Helios/Succor erases the previous stronger shield. Hence avoid that situation entirely when possible. If you see Galvanize is up, and aren't using it strategically, don't overwrite it.

Not quite true. Without a Crit, Noct Ast Benefic is actually a stronger shield that Adloquium, but as a Crit, Adlo is better. Either way, still shouldn't be going Noct with a SCH, just wanted to correct an error.

Using direct potency, Non-crit SCH shield is a 300 potency heal and a 300 potency shield. Non-crit Noct Ast Benefic is a 200 heal with 450 shield (I think I have that math right. It was one of those ASt changes that made people wonder if SE forgot that SCH had the shields. Also ignoring the healing bonus from Noct Sect, but bleh on that math.)

I think you both missed something (since kiasi was quoting descriptions)
Nocturnal Sect:
Increases healing magic potency by 15% while adding a damage nullifying barrier to certain actions. Also reduces enmity generation.
(I know you said noct set had a healing bonus but if one is jsut gonna quote ability quotes and say something like "so AST's Aspected Benefic creates a weaker shield than Adloqium" it is likely they do not have much game experience so they might not know about the bonus.

clearly AST has stronger shields, however adlo on crit does shield more, but the difference of a crit adlo and a crit noct cast may have a smaller difference then you may think.

Second, the shield types (noct and gav) will overwrite each other, regardless what is stronger or weaker. (Weaker gav effects overwrite noct shields, but will have no effect messages with other gav shields, it is possible where kiasai got confused) This is what drives me nuts. So 2 AST should have different sects on while sch and ast, ast should be using diurnal.

To be honest: While I do see bad tanks being tolerated, I see the same for healers and DPS. What I dont see if what you're describing - that they're being praised for it. And I even main a tank and am good at it - I do get more commendations than my boyfriends amazing BLM, but its still not that I would get actual praise for it. Nor have I ever seen a band tank being praised - just tolerated, something that happens to bad healers and dps just as much.

The only dungeons that might not hold true are the early once, where people learning - and I'd like to imaging that a bad trank, whos trying and taking advice gets praised for that and to be encouraged to keep tanking. At least thats what I'm doing when I'm meeting sprout tanks in Copperbell.
...but I do the same for healers and DPS...

It is frustrating when you dont get acknowledged for doing a good job as dps, I know that - but I'd say its far from the extreme you're describing. Or maybe thats just because od NA/EU datacenter...

I really wish there was some system of private message but ill try my best. Ko is.. just exaggerating to prove a point I believe, I/E tanks and healers are auto com despite what a good dps may do, like people responding to my story with the RDM player. Also I do not think KO understood your point in their last reply to you anyway.

I might not. If i glance at the party list, its usually to see if i need to use mana shift on someone. How did they get low on mana? I have no idea from a quick glance. And unless half the party is dead at that exact moment i may not know about it. And since shift will be on cooldown for the next two mins, i may not look again for awhile.

3-5 dead in a 24 man I can understand such a statement, but having only 3 people alive out of 8? this means it would be the tank, you, and the RDM is doing the carrying would be the only ones alive. I mean that is how close they where when it came to being close to a wipe, 2 different points in the fight. That is why it took 14 mins for that O8N, because people where dead large amounts of time. Also, only 2 never died once, that was the tank and the RDM, if one of those did die, it would of wiped. That is why she was so mad, it was a lot of pressure to be perfect with DPS rotations, on top of staying alive, healing and raising.

[ko_]

Seriously? I wasn't exaggerating. I literally had 4 times where I either soloed a last boss OR seen crappy tanks or heals get babied. If you actually READ my comment you'd understand what I was saying. Stop or don't bring underhand comments cause I don't agree with you on a completely different topic. Jeeze. I understood her comment completely thank you btw. So THANKS for that.

[Ilenya]

I think you both missed something (since kiasi was quoting descriptions)
Nocturnal Sect:
Increases healing magic potency by 15% while adding a damage nullifying barrier to certain actions. Also reduces enmity generation.
(I know you said noct set had a healing bonus but if one is jsut gonna quote ability quotes and say something like "so AST's Aspected Benefic creates a weaker shield than Adloqium" it is likely they do not have much game experience so they might not know about the bonus.

clearly AST has stronger shields, however adlo on crit does shield more, but the difference of a crit adlo and a crit noct cast may have a smaller difference then you may think.

Second, the shield types (noct and gav) will overwrite each other, regardless what is stronger or weaker. (Weaker gav effects overwrite noct shields, but will have no effect messages with other gav shields, it is possible where kiasai got confused) This is what drives me nuts. So 2 AST should have different sects on while sch and ast, ast should be using diurnal.

Oh, I'm aware. I'm just not on to get exact numbers and my knowledge of crit scaling is lacking.

[Moonfish]

, or literally solo the last boss in the dungeon from 90%... I dunno. But I might be thinking too much into it, but for me.. as the DPS.. it's hard not to notice.

Personally, I never comm anyone trying to be a hero. If the boss goes sideways and only a tank or DPS is alive with no way to recover the dead members but the last remaining person is prolonging the battle instead of starting over, I don’t care if your DPS was over 9000, I will never comm you.

[Vstarstruck]

Seriously? I wasn't exaggerating. I literally had 4 times where I either soloed a last boss OR seen crappy tanks or heals get babied. If you actually READ my comment you'd understand what I was saying. Stop or don't bring underhand comments cause I don't agree with you on a completely different topic. Jeeze. I understood her comment completely thank you btw. So THANKS for that.

I was talking about the kick for under 5k dps thing, ugh I am not here to debate on your personal experiences (though I have doubt you downed any boss from 90% down solo as a DPS)

Oh, I'm aware. I'm just not on to get exact numbers and my knowledge of crit scaling is lacking.

yeah ik, you did explain that, (the math comment on the noct boost, I got the message) i was trying to add more for the person you where replying to.